Mental health n logistics

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
Nainbud
Member
Posts: 26
Location: Yamunanagar
Country: India
Pet name: Buddy
My name: Naina

Mental health n logistics

Post by Nainbud » 23 Jan 2021, 11:29

* LONG POST ALERT*

hi everyone. I hope you all and your fur babies are doing well.
This post isn't about my dog's health as much as about the logistics in maintaining a balance with my normal life while taking full care of my baby.
Buddy is an indie dog I adopted from the streets in Jan,2019. She fell sick in May 2020 and was symptomatically diagnosed on July8,2020.
I got great assistance from the Epi India team.
However there are a few concerns that bother me day n night.
I felt this is the correct place to get answers to my questions as everyone will have a different point of view and can suggest out of the box ideas.

Since Buddy had EPI she has gotten into the tendency of on n off going back to eat her poop. My dogs are outdoor dogs hence I have to keep a hawk's eye on her movements. I feel crippled in this context since I feel I haven't been able to move out of the house since last 6-7 months.
I wonder does one need to keep a 24*7 eye on their Epi dogs or they can be left alone for sometime.
How do you all manage to go to work with an Epi dog?
Also how can one travel if you have an Epi dog at home who is not used to travelling or can't be taken everywhere?
Please help as this thought doesn't let me sleep at night.
Buddy diagnosed on July 8,2020.
Currently on Pancreatic lipase 1000: 1.5 capsule for each meal.
Broth of chicken potato pumpkin supplemented with 2 eggs, banana(1/2 per day) n curd n multivitamins, each meal has atleast 350gms food n 300gms of water. She is currently at 21kgs which was her original weight. she is an active dog who loves to play.

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Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 3857
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Mental health n logistics

Post by Olesia711 » 23 Jan 2021, 12:42

Hi Niana,

First thank YOU for adopting Buddy from the streets of India!

Hopefully i can help with some of your questions..........

The poo eating... UGH! Usually (with EPi dogs) it starts out as necessity (cause they are starving) but then, sometimes when it continues long after they have been receiving proper EPI treatment, the continued poo eating is either because (1) it has now become a bad habit or (2) you need to give more enzymes because optimal absorption of nutrition is not happening.

If this is a bad habit, what you can try (if you have this in India) is try adding a little bit of crushed pineapple to the meal. Supposedly it tastes good going in but not so much when eaten after its been excreted. Sometimes this helps with some dogs and sometimes it doesn't help.
You can also try sprinkling a little meat tenderizer on the food.... this is what a lot of the doggie coprophagia products have in them.
THe other thing you can try (i used this product) to give yourself peace of mind when your dog is outside... is to order a special muzzle so they can still drink, but not eat things they shouldn't (see pic below)
Image


Ahhhh... what to do when you travel. I was always afraid to leave my dog in a kennel... so.....i always had people (friends or family) that would come stay at my house and take care of my EPI dog (and the other dogs) while i was away...... I really don't know what else to advise on this..............

Hopefully one of the suggestions above regarding the poo eating helps! Oh... and i ordered that dog muzzle from Amazon.
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Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

Nainbud
Member
Posts: 26
Location: Yamunanagar
Country: India
Pet name: Buddy
My name: Naina

Re: Mental health n logistics

Post by Nainbud » 23 Jan 2021, 14:04

Hi Olesia
Thank you for such a prompt reply and thank you for creating this platform to bring us all together.
Well my dog doesn't eat anything else outside as long as nobody has mistakenly thrown some eatables except her own poop. As for the muzzle I have it at home n she absolutely hates it to the core n becomes highly irritated.

Yes for the long days away from home I have planned to have someone who can look after her n her meals but I fail to think that I can have anyone who can keep a 24*7 track of her.
As for her enzymes her poop is mainly of category 2 or 3 thanks to God so I believe I will try the meat tenderizer to see if she stays away from her poop.

I feel Epi is a mental health roller coaster. Some days are so gloomy because of our own thoughts that I feel I need to get professional help 😭
Buddy diagnosed on July 8,2020.
Currently on Pancreatic lipase 1000: 1.5 capsule for each meal.
Broth of chicken potato pumpkin supplemented with 2 eggs, banana(1/2 per day) n curd n multivitamins, each meal has atleast 350gms food n 300gms of water. She is currently at 21kgs which was her original weight. she is an active dog who loves to play.

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Montgomery
Member
Posts: 418
Country: Canada
Pet name: Montgomery (I'm a CAT!)
My name: V

Re: Mental health n logistics

Post by Montgomery » 23 Jan 2021, 14:08

Have you spoken to your veterinary clinic? They may know someone who can come in and help with meals and outings. Someone in the clinic may even do it themselves.
Montgomery was born 20 March 2012. He eats extra lean ground chicken, lean ground pork and lean ground beef completed with Alnutrin and freeze-dried chicken liver, with hard-cooked egg. He gets two size zero capsules of Enzyme Diane's enzymes at each of his six meals, and a size four capsule of Tylan three times a day. He's a fierce little Spitfire with a roaring Merlin engine.

Nainbud
Member
Posts: 26
Location: Yamunanagar
Country: India
Pet name: Buddy
My name: Naina

Re: Mental health n logistics

Post by Nainbud » 23 Jan 2021, 14:20

Hey Montogo mery
I hope you are well.
We stay in a very small town. There aren't even proper vet clinics here. I will have to hire somebody probably to take care of my pet's while no one is at home.
Buddy diagnosed on July 8,2020.
Currently on Pancreatic lipase 1000: 1.5 capsule for each meal.
Broth of chicken potato pumpkin supplemented with 2 eggs, banana(1/2 per day) n curd n multivitamins, each meal has atleast 350gms food n 300gms of water. She is currently at 21kgs which was her original weight. she is an active dog who loves to play.

Nainbud
Member
Posts: 26
Location: Yamunanagar
Country: India
Pet name: Buddy
My name: Naina

Re: Mental health n logistics

Post by Nainbud » 23 Jan 2021, 14:21

Also do you all keep an eye on your Epi dogs all the time or are they ever left without surveillance???
Buddy diagnosed on July 8,2020.
Currently on Pancreatic lipase 1000: 1.5 capsule for each meal.
Broth of chicken potato pumpkin supplemented with 2 eggs, banana(1/2 per day) n curd n multivitamins, each meal has atleast 350gms food n 300gms of water. She is currently at 21kgs which was her original weight. she is an active dog who loves to play.

Tuckaboo Pam
Member
Posts: 1345
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: Mental health n logistics

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 23 Jan 2021, 16:00

Naina, I wonder, since Buddy was a street dog, if the poop eating is something that may take longer to train out of him. You are so good to have helped him, and I am sorry his condition causes you sleeplessness. Just do your best, because everyone on this planet right now has a ton of extra stress in their lives, and we are all better off when we can be accepting that things are not perfect.

I am not sure if what you mean by watching your dog nonstop means that maybe dogs run loose in your small town, but in the US, unless we live in the country or in the woods, most of our dogs are either walked on a leash or allowed to be free in our fenced yards. Many communities have laws against dogs running loose. I have a fenced yard, and my Tucker goes out unsupervised, but I usually look around afterward & pick up the poop to be put in the trash. He does, however occasionally eat plants, which cause him some problems, and once in awhile he eats poop, but I just try to do my best, and I am satisfied with that.

I hope you can find a way to calm down a little & just do your best, because whatever you are doing, Buddy's life with you loving him is so much better than it used to be.----Pam
Tucker was a shepherd/lab mix--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Took Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlabs B12 one capsule per day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon/ morning (to hold SID at bay). Taste of the Wild High Prairie, 1 1/2 cups/day, with a total of 4 cups of Fresh Pet. Stopped eating everything in sight, and went from 60 to 85 pounds! Tucker was my boyfriend, and my husband was OK with that. Tucker succumbed to hemangiosarcoma, but we cherished every day we had with that wonderful, beautiful boy. I will always, always miss my sweet big boy.

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Montgomery
Member
Posts: 418
Country: Canada
Pet name: Montgomery (I'm a CAT!)
My name: V

Re: Mental health n logistics

Post by Montgomery » 23 Jan 2021, 20:51

Montgomery is with me nearly twenty-four-seven. He's beside me right now. I'm lucky that he can come to work with me. He needs someone with him. He eats six meals a day, and because EPI isn't his only difficulty, he needs constant attention. This is extreme.
Have you thought about what I've heard referred to as a rumble collar? Its a collar with a remote, and when you push the button the collar rumbles (not shock). If you gave him a rumble every time he went for the poop, you might be able to train it out of him that way? Help me out dog people...? You can follow it with a command (like come here) and lots of praise if she listens to you.
Dogs...Correct me if I'm wrong, please, but if they think you want the poop, they're more likely to gobble it up. I don't know if that helps. I hope it helps.
Montgomery was born 20 March 2012. He eats extra lean ground chicken, lean ground pork and lean ground beef completed with Alnutrin and freeze-dried chicken liver, with hard-cooked egg. He gets two size zero capsules of Enzyme Diane's enzymes at each of his six meals, and a size four capsule of Tylan three times a day. He's a fierce little Spitfire with a roaring Merlin engine.

User avatar
Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 3857
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Mental health n logistics

Post by Olesia711 » 23 Jan 2021, 23:22

I have not heard of a rumble collar..... BUT.... it might work....

OR.....if you have the time to go outside with your dog every time for a couple of days (need repeated consistency here)... what also might help (along the same theory as the rumble collar) is buy an air horn (hand held: they use them on boats).... and pay VERY close attention to when the dog makes a move to eat the poo... then IMMEDIATELY blow the air horn. It will make enough noise to break the zone that the dog gets in (intent on eating the poo) ... and if possible, then call the dog to you and highly praise the dog for coming to you ... maybe this might help.

When i was dealing with my dogs that pulled on the leash acting like they wanted to "eat" the dog on the other side of the road.... I had an ADPT trainer that helped me break my dog of this bad habit and he showed me how to use the air horn to "break the zone" a mindset a dog gets into
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

Nainbud
Member
Posts: 26
Location: Yamunanagar
Country: India
Pet name: Buddy
My name: Naina

Re: Mental health n logistics

Post by Nainbud » 24 Jan 2021, 00:11

Hey Tuckaboo Pam

Thank you so much for being so positive.

When I say watching non stop is that we have our workplace which is also our house n we have 2 big gardens there. The dogs are in the gardens n have a separate room outside. They aren't indoors as they were initially kept to protect them from their street life n due to our nature of work we couldn't keep them indoors. So we have cameras all around n I keep a watch on buddy through the cameras just to see when she goes to poop in the garden so I can immediately pick it up before she eats it as she doesn't have any routine timings related to her poop. I don't take my dogs outside the house for a walk owing to hygiene reasons and the fact that they have ample space in the boundary of the house to play , pee n poo.

My main concern for keeping a 24*7 watch is her poop eating habit which she developed since epi.

I will have a look at the rumble collar as well as the horn suggested by olesia.
I am also going to try the meat tenderizer if that can shoo away her coprophagia. Other than that I don't feel she needs an eye as long as her poop is stable. She does sometimes eats grass but that's okay it doesn't interfere with her health so I am okay with it.

But I do understand from all the replies that we definitely need some help for our epi dogs if we are out. They can't be left alone for long.

Thank you so much all
Buddy diagnosed on July 8,2020.
Currently on Pancreatic lipase 1000: 1.5 capsule for each meal.
Broth of chicken potato pumpkin supplemented with 2 eggs, banana(1/2 per day) n curd n multivitamins, each meal has atleast 350gms food n 300gms of water. She is currently at 21kgs which was her original weight. she is an active dog who loves to play.

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