Still Ravenous even with Enzymes and Wonderlabs B12

[simonamm]

I have searched some of the forums but cannot find the exact same situation. I have a 8 year old, 25 lb dog who was diagnosed with EPI last May. Once we got her on the enzymes she quickly turned around and gained the weight back. In June we added the wonderlabs b12 but she is still always hungry. She used to be a very polite dog around food. Now she will jump at anything that is dropped and growl at our other dogs when anything hits the floor. An hour before meal time she will start hounding us to feed her. We have tried everything in terms of more food and enzyme which ended up making her overweight and still as hungry. More enzyme doesn’t seem to help although I have not pushed this very far. She also has awful gas a lot. We try not to feed her anything outside of her two meals per day. The odd time she might get something if it’s very close to her meal time so she has some enzyme in her system still. We have gone several long periods of giving her no other food but still starving and gas. We activate the enzyme Diane for 20 mins in water. We are wondering if this is just left over mental stress from the 3 months that she went undiagnosed. Any advice would be much appreciated. Lottie thanks you in advance.

[simonamm]

Poop is good colour and form. Forgot to mention this. We also give her low fibre high quality dog food.

[Olesia711]

Hi Lottie,

So sorry to hear that your dog is overly hungry and not that polite around food anymore.

First thing that comes to mind is that she really might be just hungry because of EPI... We recommend feeding EPI dogs approx 150% of what they normally would require, at least until all their weight that had been lost due to untreated EPI (before being diagnosed).

However, that being said..... i would still have the vet check her for possible diabetes and even thyroid..... just in case this is not EPI related.

The other thing.... that gas.... that sounds very much like SID... even with good poos, that can still happen. Talk to your vet about starting your dog on a pre+probiotic... to help get the gut flora get in better condition. Right now we are recommending Proviable and also Visbiome probiotics. Both are very good. but when starting one of these, always start with LESS than half the recommended dose and work your way up to the recommended dose over the course of a week or two.

[simonamm]

Thanks for the reply. I was thinking Sid around the gas issue. Could I just try her on slippery elm and/or Tylan? We have a good vet but he is still not very familiar with EPI and we just had her check up last week.

We have increased her food about 2 months ago and she became overweight and was still always hungry, maybe slightly less. She has gained all her weight back and is generally in great spirits with lots of energy. We just noticed that she has just started eating her own poop again. She stopped this as soon as she got back on track which was about 2 months after we started her on the enzyme. Wouldn’t diabetes or thyroid show some other keys signs such as weight loss, weight gain, excessive thirst, lethargy, etc? She is showing none of these signs. Her weight is easily controlled by how much food we give her. We will try increasing her food/enzyme half as much as last time and see how that goes. And any recommendations on a pre/pro biotic/ tylan would be much appreciated. Lottie is the dogs name btw. Ha. We are Emily and Simon

[simonamm]

Just saw you already recommended some probiotics. Will look into those.

[simonamm]

Also is the probiotic only to heal the sid or is it used from now on? With everything already it is getting very expensive. Is there something more economical to try first like slippery elm? Obviously we will do what Lottie needs, we are just struggling to be on top of all these additional steps with 2 other dogs and a newborn!

[Olesia711]

Yes... you most certainly can try Slippery Elm first.....

Check out SLippery Elm powder info on this page... https://epi4dogs.com/slippery-elm/ for example.....dosage by weight, and the Wonderlabs link (this is the product a lot of us use) AND if you do decide to purchase Slippery Elm from Wonderlabs, feel free to use the Epi4Dogs coupon Epi4Dogs15 and you will get a 20% discount

[simonamm]

Thanks again for the advice. Have already bought the WL slippery elm with the discount. I will reply once the results are in.

[Olesia711]

BTW.... Lottie is an ABSOLUTE CUTIE! So sorry i addressed you by your dog's name ......... so let me start again... "Welcome Emily and Simon!"

That's is what i also thought too, that with Diabetes and or Thyroid (and other health conditions).... that there would be more signs, unfortunately, that is not always the case.

The other thing i was thinking of is possible Cushings (but this would be further down the list)..... which fits with the excessive hunger and getting a little territorial with food (my non-EPI dog developed a Cushings condition and there were none of the normal cushing signs so it took 2 long years for the vets to finally figure it out) .

It is easy and inexpensive to check for Diabetes and or Thyroid.... which are the first 2 conditions i would look at if not EPI related .... Cushings is a LOT more expensive to properly test for with the full panel which is the only way to accurately test for Cushings.

Exactly what is the name of the food that you are feeding and how much are you giving your dog for each meal and how many meals per day. Also... let us know how much EnzymeDiane enzymes you are giving per how much food.

Regarding mixing the enzymes in water..... not the best system. Please try mixing the enzyme in with the food and then add just enough water to moisten the food so that the enzymes are not sitting on dry food.. and THEN let it sit for 20 minutes.

If the Slippery Elm doesn't work, and if the Visbiome or Proviable is too expensive (which it does cost a pretty penny) then another option you can try is Vetri Science Mega Probiotic is is $32 for a bottle of 120 capsules : https://www.pureformulas.com/vetrimega ... lYEALw_wcB

You really want to try per/probiotics BEFORE you automatically try Tylan. IMHO.... only if your dog is having constant loose stools that nothing helped with, not slippery elm, not prebiotics or prebiotics with probiotics..... THEN that is when you should try Tylan.... however... it does not sound like what Lottie is dealing with.........

[Olesia711]

Please do keep us posted!!