Phoebe, Chronic Pancreatitis and Voracious/Starving

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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Madelon
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Location: Nashville, TN
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Pet name: Doc

Re: Phoebe, Chronic Pancreatitis and Voracious/Starving

Post by Madelon » 20 Mar 2021, 10:55

Yes you can do one test and then if need be later to another - I did the Dr. Dodd's test in December and he did great after following their recommendations of what to avoid - then when he started itching in the Spring with no food change I knew it was environmental allergies - that's when I did the blood test and figured since I was testing him for the environment why not go ahead and test the food and compare the results to Dr. Dodd's test LOL. My boy is allergic/sensitive to EVERYTHING just like me LOL LOL
MADELON and Doc. DX EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
Test Results: (1st) 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; (2nd) 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; (3rd) 10/2015 TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4. Prior to DX: May 2014 (2mos) - DX coccidia/bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Dx SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May 2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop. Regimen: 4 cups Sport Dog Food Elite Herding - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 1/2tsp Slippery Elm 2xday; Multivitamin; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Salmon Oil

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Cranberry21
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Location: New England
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Pet name: Phoebe
My name: Debra

Re: Phoebe, Chronic Pancreatitis and Voracious/Starving

Post by Cranberry21 » 27 Mar 2021, 03:00

Madelon, I’m also very sensitive (allergic) to things. I fear Phoebe is a lot like me. Yikes. Thanks for the info about how the tests are different.

Cheers,
Debra

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Cranberry21
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Location: New England
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Pet name: Phoebe
My name: Debra

Re: Phoebe, Chronic Pancreatitis and Voracious/Starving

Post by Cranberry21 » 27 Mar 2021, 03:30

So I didn’t fall into a well but have been busy with looking for alternatives since the vet agreed to the RC LF GI can of food but surprisingly not in favor of hydrolyzed food. I found 2 alternatives that I didn’t need an RX for: https://addictionpet.com/shop/dog-formu ... llergy-hs/; and https://shop.mysquarepet.com/collection ... arepet-vfs. The first is lower in fat and while dry, can be rehydrated. The 2nd is a kibble. I’ll have them this weekend. Then I’ll wait at least 72 hours to try the RC food.

I also got some of the Wonderlabs B-12 w/folate. I am waiting to try the food first and adding Jarrow folate to a couple of meals a day.

Her vet hasn’t ever used the newer tests for IBD before so I’ll ask the IM vet who will do the ultrasound this week about them. Of course they both know we aren’t doing biopsies on an almost 18 yr old dog.

He and I need to get on the same page about repeat lab work prior to the upcoming ultrasound. He was always convinced Phoebe had IBD or something similar but when biopsies during her surgery didn’t support his hypothesis, he has now switched gears back to her liver/biliary duct. (And pancreas, which he’s never given much credence to...). I know I’m venting a little, and that we’ll reach an agreement.

Meanwhile Phoebe had one really tough night this week but has been pretty stable, even though her weight has fallen to 10.5 lbs (should be 14-15).

I am crossing everything in hopes that one of the foods will help. Or even that the ultrasound & consult will be useful.

Thanks to all who have given me the links and info about tests. That’s next. So much to do.

Best to all,
Debra

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Madelon
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Location: Nashville, TN
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Re: Phoebe, Chronic Pancreatitis and Voracious/Starving

Post by Madelon » 27 Mar 2021, 11:03

Hi Debra. Sorry to hear Phoebe had a rough day but glad she seems to be a bit better. Please keep us posted on how things are going and what you're trying. Sending hugs.
MADELON and Doc. DX EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
Test Results: (1st) 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; (2nd) 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; (3rd) 10/2015 TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4. Prior to DX: May 2014 (2mos) - DX coccidia/bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Dx SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May 2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop. Regimen: 4 cups Sport Dog Food Elite Herding - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 1/2tsp Slippery Elm 2xday; Multivitamin; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Salmon Oil

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Olesia711
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Re: Phoebe, Chronic Pancreatitis and Voracious/Starving

Post by Olesia711 » 29 Mar 2021, 12:55

Ahh Debra.... i too am sorry to hear that Phoebe had a rough day... but am also glad to hear that she is still holding her own.

As i sat here, reading your update on her, what came across loud and clear to me is how very much you love her and are trying anything and everything to make her as comfortable as possible. Phoebe is very lucky that you are her human companion! It sounds like you both have such an extraordinary beautiful bond to each other..... so heartwarming!

I hope the new things that you are trying will give her comfort.

Please continue to keep us updated!
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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Cranberry21
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Location: New England
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Pet name: Phoebe
My name: Debra

Re: Phoebe, Chronic Pancreatitis and Voracious/Starving

Post by Cranberry21 » 09 May 2021, 00:05

Thank you Olesia! And so sorry for the long lapse in updates. Phoebe is doing okay. Not great, but a bit better.

You all have put together such an amazing site, even for the chronic pancreatitis, on the way to EPI dogs. I've been reading a LOT here (thank you for "Sabre's Journey"). And have been, after failed attempts with antibiotics, diet (hydrolyzed protein), budesinide, etc., trying some other strategies. She had a diarrhea PCR test where there was nothing. No found pathogens in that test.

I do think that Phoebe has an issue with chicken. My thoughts are to put her back on whitefish, then switch to 90/10 turkey (which I know is still poultry...). Perhaps there will be another protein change.I tried once switching portions from chicken to whitefish. That helped a bit. But adding Animal Essential Colon Rescue (slippery elm, dgl licorice, marshmallow root, plantain), L-Glutamine, N.A.G., and a wee bit of Optigest digestive enzymes have helped. Gas is reduced. Diarrhea has not ended but the bloody diarrhea has. So, my observations are that soothing her GI tract and adding some plant-based enzymes have helped with some symptoms. I also added a very small amount of pumpkin purée to her meals. I may not be adding enough or it is the "wrong" thing for here.

My plan now is to start her on Larch Arabinogalactan (1st) and a simple probiotic (these have always upset Phoebe's system but I really believe she needs this balance now). Depending on how this goes, I'll try some other strategies.

I know Phoebe is old (18) and perhaps I should let her go. This may be true. But she is already relieved of some issues and that is positive. I don't know how long her future is but I'm trying to increase comfort.

So I'm open to any suggestions for a geriatric dog who has a pancreas that on ultrasound now (for the 1st time) shows mottling and a cyst. Her other blood work is not too bad (non-regenerative anemia?) and a few slightly elevated liver values (which we were told when her gallbladder was removed might never resolve, but did until now).

My goals are to provide more comfort and perhaps enable her to absorb more protein and nutrients, to improve her mobility, even slightly.

Much admiration to all. You are amazing.

Debra

Tuckaboo Pam
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Re: Phoebe, Chronic Pancreatitis and Voracious/Starving

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 09 May 2021, 08:42

Happy Mother's Day, to a wonderful dog momma.

My only input, in case you haven't already heard, is to start the probiotics slowly. If I didn't do this, Tucker would get diarrhea every time. He has been on a steady course of Proviable for months, now, one capsule per day, but I started out sprinkling about 1/5 of the capsule contents, slowly adding more, until after about ten days he could handle the whole thing.

Tucker weighs 80 pounds, and he is 7 years old, so a completely different dosing than what you will need, but the technique may work for you, too. --- Pam
Tucker is a shepherd/lab mix; he has tested positive on the ScheBo test for EPI, as well as the fasting TLI. Results--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Currently taking Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlab B12 one capsule 2X day, slippery elm 1/4 teaspoon/day, and Tylan 1/4 teaspoon twice/day (therapeutic for returning SID). Sport Dog Elite, herding dogs 3 1/2 cups/day. No more poop eating, his weight is steady, and he is a happy member of the family, though a bit of a stinker, if you ask the other dogs. Tucker is my boyfriend, and my husband is OK with that.

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jilbert57
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Re: Phoebe, Chronic Pancreatitis and Voracious/Starving

Post by jilbert57 » 09 May 2021, 09:36

Hi Debra. Have you ever tried overcooked white rice and a small amount of cooked lean beef burger? The simpler you can keep the diet for a pancreatic dog the better.
I used Jasmine rice as it is easy to reheat and easy for the dog to pick up. Then boil burger and make sure to drain on paper towel.
Feed 4 small meals a day for 4 or 5 days and see if things get any better.
You are a wonderful dog mom!

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have one pup. TJ is a 5 year old Jack Russell.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

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Olesia711
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Posts: 1929
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Phoebe, Chronic Pancreatitis and Voracious/Starving

Post by Olesia711 » 09 May 2021, 21:02

Hi Debra,

Happy Mothers Day to the very best mom Phoebe could have ever had.

I do have a suggestion for you to give Phoebe..... see if you can find some Manganese to give her. I just read a recent research report on giving (don't laugh) chickens probiotics, enzymes and when added Manganese it dramatically improved their stamina, performance/activity level and greatly improved their immune system.

It is safe for dogs, there are no reports of toxicity from too much manganese:
"Manganese is a trace mineral. It is vital for the human body, but people only need it in small amounts. Manganese contributes to many bodily functions, including the metabolism of amino acids, cholesterol, glucose, and carbohydrates. It also plays a role in bone formation, blood clotting, and inflammation"

Might be something to try adding to her diet....
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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Cranberry21
Member
Posts: 56
Location: New England
Country: United States
Pet name: Phoebe
My name: Debra

Re: Phoebe, Chronic Pancreatitis and Voracious/Starving

Post by Cranberry21 » 13 May 2021, 04:10

Hi Pam,
Thank you for reminding me to start probiotics slowly. I think with Phoebe's touchy system that is definitely necessary, if I ever get that far.

My very best to you and Tucker!

Debra

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