Phoebe, Chronic Pancreatitis and Voracious/Starving

[jilbert57]

Have you tried one of the hydrolyzed diets with your pup?
I used Total Zymes.

Jill

[Cranberry21]

Yes, tried the well known ones and lesser known. Also limited ingredient novel proteins. And just plain low fat RX. Same problems, even worse with these diets. The fat content and/or carbs. Plus she has been off kibble for over 3 years. Gall bladder/bile issues.

It seems like Phoebe has motility and absorption issues.

[Olesia711]

Hi Debra,
Ahhh... so you are giving her pain meds and know about hydrating....
Regrading what plant enzymes might help since she has such a severe reaction to animal based pancreas enzymes..... here are 3 that you can try. The one that appears to be most successful is the Goodpet one:
Some plant enzymes to try would be:

TotalZymes https://www.k9medicinals.com/pet-produc ... tal-zymes/
Prozyme https://www.amazon.com/Prozyme-Original ... B00AR91EV8
Dr. Goodpet https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002 ... UTF8&psc=1

Just double check the ingredients in each one to make sure that it might be something yo think Phoebe can handle........

[Cranberry21]

Thank you so much Olesia!
These recommendations are so helpful. And for reminding me to check ingredients. So easy to forget that!

[Cranberry21]

Regrading what plant enzymes might help since she has such a severe reaction to animal based pancreas enzymes..... here are 3 that you can try…

TotalZymes
Prozyme
Dr. Goodpet

I ordered the Prozyme and Dr. Goodpet. They will be here tomorrow. They seemed to have the most straightforward ingredient lists, but different enough that one might be better than the other.

Any tips about these? Like if she is gassier, back off (or maybe increase)? I think I’m looking for better GI functioning and better poos. Is that correct?.

[jilbert57]

If you go with the TotalZymes I called the owner and he told me the plant enzymes work better if incubated also. I don't know if this includes Prozyme and Goodpet but I would call and inquire.

Jill

[Cranberry21]

Thank you Jill. That’s good to know. I was wondering about incubating the plant based enzymes.

I was afraid of the long list of ingredients on the TotalZymes. But of course I may have to try it depending on how it goes with the others.

Did you start out slowly? Anything I’m looking for other than “seems to feel/do better/have better poops”?

[jilbert57]

This is the ingredient list of TotalZymes from the site. I don't really see any unnecessary ingredients, but I sure do see a lot of different plant enzymes!
Let us know how the enzymes work out. I used Prozyme for awhile too.

"Our List of Our 16 Enzymes in Total-Zymes®: "

Pet Digestive Aid Protease 6.0; Is used to break down proteins to peptides. It will not digest protein to amino acids. A second enzyme is necessary for that to happen.

Pet Digestive Aid Protease 3.0; Is used to break down proteins in a different PH range.

Pet Digestive Aid Protease 4.5; Is used to break down proteins in a different PH range then the other two.

Pet Digestive Aid Peptidase; Help digest protein molecules. Four varieties of protease enzymes have been combined in this formula to compensate for higher protein diets of pets.

Pet Digestive Aid Amylase; An enzyme that breaks down sugars and starches. Good for those hidden sugars in pet treats. And helps digest corn, potatoes, rice ect.

Pet Digestive Aid Alpha-Galactosidase; This enzyme breaks down carbohydrates, such as vegetables, whole grains. It can help support normal gas.

Pet Digestive Aid Beta-Glucanase; This enzyme is used to breakdown carbohydrates, specifically starches.

Pet Digestive Aid Diastase; Sometimes called maltase is an enzyme that is the catalyst in the hydrolysis of disaccharide maltose to the simple sugar form - glucose.

Pet Digestive Aid Lipase; Will digest lipids or fats as they are commonly called. Lipase is critical to digest that fat in the diet that supports a healthy coat and skin.

Pet Digestive Aid Cellulase; Works on Cellulose, an indigestible fiber found in many fruits and vegetables.

Pet Digestive Aid Pectinase; Breaks down fruit and vegetable pectins and and facilitates the transportation of waste. A much needed enzyme for your pet. Your pet gets heavy metal build up just like we do, this enzyme helps rid your pet of theses metals.

Pet Digestive Aid Phytase; Breaks down carbohydrates, specifically phytates in plants. It can increase mineral absorption and the bio-availability of iron, zinc, calcium, and magnesium. A needed enzyme to help digest pet food with potatoes or carrots ect. Some companies say you do not need this very important enzyme it was put into the formula because pet foods do have carbohydrates and this enzyme helps properly digest them.

Pet Digestive Aid Hemicellulase; Is used to breakdown carbohydrates, especially polysaccharides such as hemicelluloses, which are found in plant foods.

Pet Digestive Aid Bromelain; Is most notable for supporting the body as a systemic enzyme. As a natural systemic enzyme with many uses.

Pet Digestive Aid NEW! Lactase; Helping digest, Lactose and milk sugars. Lactase is required to break down lactose (a primary sugar found in mammalian milk). Also to help digest yogurt, milk products and cheese.

Pet Digestive Aid NEW! Glucoamylase; Is used to breakdown carbohydrates, specifically polysaccharides, simple sugars. Many new dog treats have hidden sugar.

NEW! Prebiotics; Pre-biotics to help with implantation and growth of the good guy bacteria in the gut. Pre-biotics- Inulin IQ FOS (Fructooligosaccharides)- one of the best-known pre-biotics, FOS is known to promote the growth of beneficial bacteria in the gastrointestinal tract. It has been shown to stimulate growth of bifidobacteria in the colon where many issues first take root. Healthy colon function is vital to a properly functioning immune system



LEADS

Live Enzyme Activated Delivery System ® (L.E.A.D.S. ®) insures assimilation at a cellular level. This particular combination of mineral cofactors helps to activate each individual enzyme for maximum particle digestion and complete nutrient distribution throughout the body. It increases the formula's bioavailability.



Total-Zymes® Now has more enzymes for total digestion and to help support the overall health of your pet.

Other ingredients:

Chickory root (prebiotic dietary fiber), extract, Beet (root), Our L.E.A.D.S Delivery System: Calcium Amino Acid Chelate, Calcium Carbonate, Magnesium Amino Acid Chelate. All chelated minerals are Albion TRAACS®.

The new label reads like this:

Ingredients: Chickory root (prebiotic dietary fiber), Dried Amylase Aspergillus oryzae fermentation extract, Dried Protease (4.5) Aspergillus oryzae fermentation extract, Dried Lipase Rhizopus oryzae fermentation extract, Dried Maltogenic Alpha-Amylase Aspergillus oryzae fermentation extract, Dried Pectinase aspergillus niger fermentation extract, Dried Glucoamylase aspergillus niger fermentation extract, Dried Protease (3.0) aspergillus niger fermentation extract, Bromelain, Dried Cellulase aspergillus niger fermentation extract, Dried Hemicellulase aspergillus niger fermentation extract, Dried Beta-glucanase Trichoderma reesei fermentation extract, Dried Protease (6.0) Aspergillus oryzae fermentation extract, Dried Alpha-Galactosidase aspergillus niger fermentation extract, Dried Lactase Aspergillus oryzae fermentation extract, Dried Phytase Aspergillus niger fermentation extract, Dried Peptidase Aspergillus oryzae fermentation extract, Beet (root), Calcium Amino Acid Chelate, Calcium Carbonate, Magnesium Amino Acid Chelate. All chelated minerals are Albion TRAACS®.



All ingredients are AAFCO approved for quality and safety, the people that know animals.
Our products do not contain any, chemicals, gluten, soy, dairy, or yeast and are also wheat free, no eggs, no preservatives, no artificial coloring or flavoring. This product is Non-GMO and Corn Free.

Our factory is Certified and in full compliance with GMP Requirements for Dietary Supplements. We also have a third party testing lab test for impurities. Made in USA facility. "

Jill

[Cranberry21]

Oh wow! Thanks Jill!

I guess I’m trying to decide where to start. It looks like Dr. Goodpet has probiotics, which so far don’t seem to sit well with Phoebe. But there could be reasons for that. Still…

Prozyme looks pretty straightforward. Was there a reason you switched? I assume TotalZymes turned out to work better for your dog?

What stands out in the list of ingredients you sent is that a lot of them seem to sound like they aid protein digestion, which is where I think Phoebe is having the worst trouble. Again, maybe I don’t understand.

Any idea? Did you have to try a lot of enzymes before finding what would work?

[jilbert57]

If she was having problems breaking down protein wouldn't you want more enzymes to help break down that protein? That is the way I see it. If the dog has pancreatitis the protein is going to be the hardest for the pancreas to break down. Prozyme didn't work for Mickey. I also tried Optagest but didn't work either.
If Phoebe is having an ACUTE pancreatitis attack it is advised not to use a probiotic. There is evidence it may restrict blood flow to the stomach.

Jill