Phoebe, Chronic Pancreatitis and Voracious/Starving
- Olesia711
- Founder & Research Director
- Posts: 3933
- Location: North Carolina
- Country: United States
- State: North Carolina
- Pet name: Izzy
- My name: olesia
Re: Phoebe, Chronic Pancreatitis and Voracious/Starving
Debra, i just did some research..... not on food sensitivities per se, but actual blood tests to determine if the dog has IBD going on..... which is why you put dogs on Hydrolyzed foods cuz they have a sensitivity to something..... SO........... came up with 2 possibilities.... This would probably be more appropriate than the Dr. Dodds food sensitivity saliva test that i mentioned earlier as these are both blood tests.
1. https://vetmed.tamu.edu/gilab/service/a ... e-protein/
2. https://www.antechdiagnostics.com/labor ... -ibd-assay
Please show both of these to your vet and ask his thoughts on running one of these. Years ago the ONLY way to confirm IBD (food sensitivities) was via a scope which was very invasive and that is why we always just suggested feeding Hydrolyzed food to see if that works instead of traumatizing the dog with an invasive procedure when the treatment in the end would be giving hydrolyzed food.
Anyway.... these are new tests on the market..... so maybe discuss with your vet if he thinks this might be a good next step.
1. https://vetmed.tamu.edu/gilab/service/a ... e-protein/
2. https://www.antechdiagnostics.com/labor ... -ibd-assay
Please show both of these to your vet and ask his thoughts on running one of these. Years ago the ONLY way to confirm IBD (food sensitivities) was via a scope which was very invasive and that is why we always just suggested feeding Hydrolyzed food to see if that works instead of traumatizing the dog with an invasive procedure when the treatment in the end would be giving hydrolyzed food.
Anyway.... these are new tests on the market..... so maybe discuss with your vet if he thinks this might be a good next step.
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........
- Cranberry21
- Member
- Posts: 60
- Location: New England
- Country: United States
- Pet name: Phoebe
- My name: Debra
Re: Phoebe, Chronic Pancreatitis and Voracious/Starving
Olesia,
What thoughtful suggestions! I will definitely ask our vet about the 2 tests (TAMU & Antech). I know he agrees with me and is not in favor of invasive testing (biopsies, etc.).
I'll also ask about the 2 foods you listed and testing them 1 can 72 hours from the 2nd. And agree about the coconut oil (which is why I have never tried it with her).
Interestingly the vet worked with Dr. Dodds at some point and I'm guessing he reached out to her office re: Phoebe's hypothyroidism (perhaps not Dr. Dodds directly, but he told me he consulted with a specialist). I understand what you're saying about primary hypothyroidism vs. euthyroid sick syndrome. Phoebe was barely in normal range over 2 years ago (T4 1.0, ref 1.0-4.0). And in 7 years of records she's not been above 2.0 for most intermittent testing. Still, she's had some real medical issues that could explain these low levels of screening T4. Anyway, her vet does recommend that she stay on thyroxine, as her clinical symptoms are improved, as are her numbers.
Still, if there's an underlying health issue that is depressing her thyroid panel numbers, then I hope we can find it.
Thank you so much for doing research to help Phoebe. I'll let you know what comes of my conversation with her vet.
Our best,
Debra
What thoughtful suggestions! I will definitely ask our vet about the 2 tests (TAMU & Antech). I know he agrees with me and is not in favor of invasive testing (biopsies, etc.).
I'll also ask about the 2 foods you listed and testing them 1 can 72 hours from the 2nd. And agree about the coconut oil (which is why I have never tried it with her).
Interestingly the vet worked with Dr. Dodds at some point and I'm guessing he reached out to her office re: Phoebe's hypothyroidism (perhaps not Dr. Dodds directly, but he told me he consulted with a specialist). I understand what you're saying about primary hypothyroidism vs. euthyroid sick syndrome. Phoebe was barely in normal range over 2 years ago (T4 1.0, ref 1.0-4.0). And in 7 years of records she's not been above 2.0 for most intermittent testing. Still, she's had some real medical issues that could explain these low levels of screening T4. Anyway, her vet does recommend that she stay on thyroxine, as her clinical symptoms are improved, as are her numbers.
Still, if there's an underlying health issue that is depressing her thyroid panel numbers, then I hope we can find it.
Thank you so much for doing research to help Phoebe. I'll let you know what comes of my conversation with her vet.
Our best,
Debra
- Cranberry21
- Member
- Posts: 60
- Location: New England
- Country: United States
- Pet name: Phoebe
- My name: Debra
Re: Phoebe, Chronic Pancreatitis and Voracious/Starving
Jill,
Ugh...the sludge in the gallbladder. Phoebe had that, and then her gallbladder just seems to inflate to near explosion. She's still on ursodiol. I'm sorry your Mickey had sludge.
Thanks for the link to the plant enzymes you used. Hopefully I can find something that will help her digestion (absorption & even ability take b-complex supplements, for example). I don't know if this is enzymes or what. But fingers crossed.
Appreciatively,
Debra
Ugh...the sludge in the gallbladder. Phoebe had that, and then her gallbladder just seems to inflate to near explosion. She's still on ursodiol. I'm sorry your Mickey had sludge.
Thanks for the link to the plant enzymes you used. Hopefully I can find something that will help her digestion (absorption & even ability take b-complex supplements, for example). I don't know if this is enzymes or what. But fingers crossed.
Appreciatively,
Debra
- Jean
- Forum Director
- Posts: 1707
- Location: South Liverpool
- Country: United Kingdom - England
- Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
- My name: Jean
Re: Phoebe, Chronic Pancreatitis and Voracious/Starving
They are sent to try us constantly
My Kara was intolerant of several proteins, the biggest being chicken in dog food, we could give her fresh cooked chicken, rice was another, we had her on lamb as the main protein, no poultry fat, no grains, no rice
and she thrived, but you have other issues, I wish I could help, but its out of my experience
My Kara was intolerant of several proteins, the biggest being chicken in dog food, we could give her fresh cooked chicken, rice was another, we had her on lamb as the main protein, no poultry fat, no grains, no rice
and she thrived, but you have other issues, I wish I could help, but its out of my experience
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk
I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of
My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day
Lowest weight 39 pounds
We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules
Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM
Jeanx
I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of
My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day
Lowest weight 39 pounds
We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules
Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM
Jeanx
- Cranberry21
- Member
- Posts: 60
- Location: New England
- Country: United States
- Pet name: Phoebe
- My name: Debra
Re: Phoebe, Chronic Pancreatitis and Voracious/Starving
Jean,
Well Phoebe’s main eating issue is that her GI system goes crazy whenever we feed her anything but chicken and rice. A green bean is too much. And that she no matter how much she eats (2x Kcal needs, etc) she still loses weight. She seems intolerant of everything.
Did you figure out Kara’s diet through trial and error, or testing? Or a little bit of both?
Debra
Well Phoebe’s main eating issue is that her GI system goes crazy whenever we feed her anything but chicken and rice. A green bean is too much. And that she no matter how much she eats (2x Kcal needs, etc) she still loses weight. She seems intolerant of everything.
Did you figure out Kara’s diet through trial and error, or testing? Or a little bit of both?
Debra
- Madelon
- Staff
- Posts: 1317
- Location: Nashville, TN
- Country: United States
- State: Tennessee
- Pet name: Doc
Re: Phoebe, Chronic Pancreatitis and Voracious/Starving
Just wanted to give my two cents on the food sensitivity tests - I did both Dr. Dodds NutriScan test and the blood test through Antech. There were a few things on the NutriScan test that weren't on the Antech test and there were things on the Antech test that weren't on the NutriScan test but most of the things my boy tested as sensitive to were positive on both tests. Since avoiding the offending ingredients on both tests I've been able to keep his sensitivities under control.
Also I will say - I tried a hydrolyzed food once for my boy and he had a HORRIBLE reaction - after calling the company I found out that only the protein is hydrolyzed - well my boy was extremely sensitive/allergic to some of the other ingredients but I thought being hydrolyzed meant all of the ingredients were hydrolyzed. Uggghhhhh.
Also I will say - I tried a hydrolyzed food once for my boy and he had a HORRIBLE reaction - after calling the company I found out that only the protein is hydrolyzed - well my boy was extremely sensitive/allergic to some of the other ingredients but I thought being hydrolyzed meant all of the ingredients were hydrolyzed. Uggghhhhh.
Madelon, owned by DOC. DOC dx EPI 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24. DOC taught me so much and together we battled and overcame EPI, food sensitivies, environmental allergies but we lost the cancer battle. DOC was dx with hemangiosarcoma 5/2022 and crossed the rainbow bridge July 24, 2022. He is and always will be the love of my life, my soulmate, my heart dog.
- Cranberry21
- Member
- Posts: 60
- Location: New England
- Country: United States
- Pet name: Phoebe
- My name: Debra
Re: Phoebe, Chronic Pancreatitis and Voracious/Starving
Madelon,
I really appreciate you sharing your experience with the sensitivity tests, and with hydrolyzed food. I wonder if I could start with one test (Dr. Dodds?), then do more if necessary?
I actually thought I had read that the hydrolyzed food only applied to hydrolyzed protein. Yikes! I suppose that works for many animals, but not all. Good to know!
Best to you,
Debra
I really appreciate you sharing your experience with the sensitivity tests, and with hydrolyzed food. I wonder if I could start with one test (Dr. Dodds?), then do more if necessary?
I actually thought I had read that the hydrolyzed food only applied to hydrolyzed protein. Yikes! I suppose that works for many animals, but not all. Good to know!
Best to you,
Debra
- Jean
- Forum Director
- Posts: 1707
- Location: South Liverpool
- Country: United Kingdom - England
- Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
- My name: Jean
Re: Phoebe, Chronic Pancreatitis and Voracious/Starving
Kara went throgh a very rough time, she was shedding the lining of her bowel which came out as a mess, so straight to the vets, she was only allowed Scrambled eggs and mashed potato for 14 days, no other protein of any sort, he really wanted her off meat permanently, but that wasnt an option, she did well on lamb food for a long time
she was diagnosed with the food intolerances after blood tests , and it was then she was fed lamb based foods
I really feel for you, it was difficult for us and foods, at the time in 2010 when she was first diagnosed in 2010 there were very few grain free foods around, and almost none of anything without chicken which she could not tolerate in dog food
but, as time went on we trawled the internet, and had all of her food delivered from various places
Trouble is, over here there is one VERY large company who make the foods to the sellers recipe, and the seller then sells it saying it is their own, which it often is not, so .................................I think you have the same issue over there, you just have to check they dont change the recipe comstantly, and they do, to make it more cost effective to produce, and it makes me mad
also maybe there is an intolerance of the enzyme, maybe a porcine intolerance, Diane does beef enzymes maybe that is an option to get a sample bag
I havent got a dog at the moment as its almost impossible to rescue one due to Covid, we at the moment are only allowed to travel for certain things and getting a dog is not essential!
But, we have hope
Jean
she was diagnosed with the food intolerances after blood tests , and it was then she was fed lamb based foods
I really feel for you, it was difficult for us and foods, at the time in 2010 when she was first diagnosed in 2010 there were very few grain free foods around, and almost none of anything without chicken which she could not tolerate in dog food
but, as time went on we trawled the internet, and had all of her food delivered from various places
Trouble is, over here there is one VERY large company who make the foods to the sellers recipe, and the seller then sells it saying it is their own, which it often is not, so .................................I think you have the same issue over there, you just have to check they dont change the recipe comstantly, and they do, to make it more cost effective to produce, and it makes me mad
also maybe there is an intolerance of the enzyme, maybe a porcine intolerance, Diane does beef enzymes maybe that is an option to get a sample bag
I havent got a dog at the moment as its almost impossible to rescue one due to Covid, we at the moment are only allowed to travel for certain things and getting a dog is not essential!
But, we have hope
Jean
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk
I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of
My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day
Lowest weight 39 pounds
We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules
Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM
Jeanx
I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of
My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day
Lowest weight 39 pounds
We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules
Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM
Jeanx
- Cranberry21
- Member
- Posts: 60
- Location: New England
- Country: United States
- Pet name: Phoebe
- My name: Debra
Re: Phoebe, Chronic Pancreatitis and Voracious/Starving
Oh Jean, of course there were many fewer options way back...thankfully that has changed some. Yes, we have the problem of several very large companies who make most “brands.” It surprised me when I learned that.
Thanks for the heads up on the beef enzymes. I will remember that!
First we have to have an ultrasound and some repeat tests. And I’m checking with the vet on the tests that have been recommended here. Then we’ll go from there. It’s a small change but I’ve added folate to Phoebe’s diet. I have no idea yet if it’s helping but doesn’t seem to do any harm. She seems a bit more settled but could be calm before another storm. Ugh.
We also have a shortage of rescue dogs and dogs generally here. Long wait lists...but I have my hands full.
Hopefully your shortage will end soon. I send best wishes for that!
Debra
Thanks for the heads up on the beef enzymes. I will remember that!
First we have to have an ultrasound and some repeat tests. And I’m checking with the vet on the tests that have been recommended here. Then we’ll go from there. It’s a small change but I’ve added folate to Phoebe’s diet. I have no idea yet if it’s helping but doesn’t seem to do any harm. She seems a bit more settled but could be calm before another storm. Ugh.
We also have a shortage of rescue dogs and dogs generally here. Long wait lists...but I have my hands full.
Hopefully your shortage will end soon. I send best wishes for that!
Debra
- Jean
- Forum Director
- Posts: 1707
- Location: South Liverpool
- Country: United Kingdom - England
- Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
- My name: Jean
Re: Phoebe, Chronic Pancreatitis and Voracious/Starving
if as you said she is low on folate then vitamin b9 is the one
have a read of this
https://vetmed.tamu.edu/gilab/service/assays/b12folate/
also
https://vetmed.tamu.edu/gilab/research/ ... formation/
I found this when I was researching for someone else
Also The Wonderlabs vit b12 with intrinsic factor has folic acid inbuilt
https://www.wonderlabs.com/itemleft.php?itemnum=K9688
just scroll down
Just keep notes on EVERYTHING, I think Phoebe is so gorgeous
jx
have a read of this
https://vetmed.tamu.edu/gilab/service/assays/b12folate/
also
https://vetmed.tamu.edu/gilab/research/ ... formation/
I found this when I was researching for someone else
Also The Wonderlabs vit b12 with intrinsic factor has folic acid inbuilt
https://www.wonderlabs.com/itemleft.php?itemnum=K9688
just scroll down
Just keep notes on EVERYTHING, I think Phoebe is so gorgeous
jx
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk
I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of
My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day
Lowest weight 39 pounds
We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules
Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM
Jeanx
I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of
My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day
Lowest weight 39 pounds
We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules
Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM
Jeanx
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