Phoebe, Chronic Pancreatitis and Voracious/Starving

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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Cranberry21
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Location: New England
Country: United States
Pet name: Phoebe
My name: Debra

Re: Phoebe, Chronic Pancreatitis and Voracious/Starving

Post by Cranberry21 » 28 May 2021, 12:05

Jean wrote: 13 May 2021, 05:19 my only advice here is a bland diet

Kara was shedding her bowel which was disgusting she was so poorly she took to our bed ! this was fine, we left her there

The Vet said no meat protein, so it was scrambled egg and mashed potato for 14 days, trouble was, she insisted on it every night for life, no problem whatever, we just bought eggs by the 48 at a time , we used reconstituted potato so long as there was no salt or butter in it

I cant say it will work for you, but.............................................we could only give Kara lamb as a meat protein for life, she couldnt tolerate chicken in any way unless I cooled it for her, none in dog food, or poultry fat

she was intollerant of beef chicken white fish and pork this by blood test

I feel for you, we spent a fortune on dog foods, just get small bags, or ask for trial packs

Rabbit is meant to be a good one, pheasant might be too rich

My view is, its your dog, your money, you employ the vet, mine was 100% amazing we called him Uncle Ian, so go in with a determined attitude write down everything you want to know and tick it off as you go

Ask can you record the session, we did it several times, as its a fact we absorb 10% of what we are told ! we listened to the session at home, I am not sure I absorb anything like 10%
Hi Jean, Thanks for the advice. Phoebe doesn’t have the bloody stools now (L-Glutamine seems to have helped with that). But she isn’t able to digest any protein that I’ve tried: chicken breast, turkey breast, beef, cod. I haven’t tried fattier meats as she has a history of pancreatitis.

I don’t know if her body is shutting down or if her pancreas is slowly losing function. After trying cod this week and a teeny bit of SeaCure on Wednesday, she and I spent the entire night up with every hour or two diarrhea (no blood), all different colors from orange to pea green to brownish. Texture was very soft blobs to round circles of thick liquid. Very smelly. She has terrible gassiness and gurgling and I have to massage her belly to try to help move it along. The gas is a torment for her.

She’s down to 9.2lbs (should be 14.5lbs). She’s hungry every 3-4 hours, though she rested and fasted yesterday.

The weight loss is crippling and her inability to process what she’s eating is untenable.

I’m going to add powdered egg whites to her rice congee today to see if she tolerates them. She used to love scrambled eggs but seems to not be able to eat anything that isn’t puréed into a thin gruel.

I fear this is too much suffering for her. She’s a strong girl but if she can’t tolerate food, then she is facing a problem that will end her life.

I think her pancreas/chronic pancreatitis has her on a terrible roller coaster.

If she is not EPI but on a chronic pancreatitis spectrum that could lead to EPI, what can I do to help with digestion, especially of protein?

Thanks!
Debra

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Cranberry21
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Posts: 60
Location: New England
Country: United States
Pet name: Phoebe
My name: Debra

Re: Phoebe, Chronic Pancreatitis and Voracious/Starving

Post by Cranberry21 » 28 May 2021, 12:12

jilbert57 wrote: 13 May 2021, 09:10 Debra, for another protein I used with Mickey was low fat cottage cheese with the rice. When he got high blood pressure I switched to half low sodium cottage cheese.

Jill
Hi Jill, I did try cottage cheese and she liked it but the diarrhea ensued, not as bad as what I described to Jean, but a similar reaction.

I don’t know what to do. Should I expect a period of diarrhea? This doesn’t seem feasible, especially with the horrible and painful gas, the gurgling, the obvious discomfort after she eats protein. And the occasional vomiting.

And all her food is puréed to a gruel. I can’t imagine giving her solid food. (No solid normal food in 3 years.) I feel so stupid at this point and helpless.

Sorry for the despairing thoughts. I’m going to lose her to this whatever it is.

Thanks again,
Debra

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Cranberry21
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Location: New England
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Pet name: Phoebe
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Re: Phoebe, Chronic Pancreatitis and Voracious/Starving

Post by Cranberry21 » 28 May 2021, 12:15

Madelon wrote: 16 May 2021, 10:22 Hi Debra - this is way out of my area of expertise but based on reading everything I would tend to stick with the eggs and cottage cheese like Jean and Jill suggested. I do know this - Phoebe is VERY lucky to have such a dedicated loving mom!!
Thank you for the kind words Madelon. I only wish I could find something that would work for her.

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Cranberry21
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Location: New England
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Pet name: Phoebe
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Re: Phoebe, Chronic Pancreatitis and Voracious/Starving

Post by Cranberry21 » 28 May 2021, 12:16

Thank you Barb for your kindness. It means a lot as I’m scared I’m facing the end with Phoebe.

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jilbert57
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Re: Phoebe, Chronic Pancreatitis and Voracious/Starving

Post by jilbert57 » 28 May 2021, 15:49

Please remind me is she on enzymes?

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

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Cranberry21
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Location: New England
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Pet name: Phoebe
My name: Debra

Re: Phoebe, Chronic Pancreatitis and Voracious/Starving

Post by Cranberry21 » 28 May 2021, 16:07

Not now. I tried a “tip of a paring knife” smidge of Bio Case first, and then diarrhea, gas…the usual agony for her.

Then I did the same thing with a vegetable based enzyme Optagest. Same issues.

Perhaps I’m not trying enough to make a difference or not trying ones that would work for her?

BTW put a very small amount of egg white powder in with white rice congee. She ate it but then whined, arched her back while in bed, sort of writhing. Usual response to proteins these days. She seems sensitive to the touch of her left upper flank.

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Olesia711
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Re: Phoebe, Chronic Pancreatitis and Voracious/Starving

Post by Olesia711 » 28 May 2021, 17:24

Hi Debra,
I am so sorry that Phoebe is hurting so much ... it must be breaking your heart to watch and not know how to give her some relief without upsetting her. Can or has the vet prescribed anything for pain for her???? My understanding is that injectable buprenorphine can be given or there might be some other narcotic pain relievers.

Although that won't fix the loose stools, helping the pain subside might help.

Also...since she is having such trouble with foods, i am assuming you need to keep her hydrated.... maybe call the vet and find out if you can give unflavored Pedialyte to make sure her electrolytes are okay....................
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

Barb
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Re: Phoebe, Chronic Pancreatitis and Voracious/Starving

Post by Barb » 28 May 2021, 18:08

Debra,

I wish I had a magic wand that I could wave to help Phoebe. It is so hard to see our pups hurting and not be able to help them.

I agree with Olesia about asking your vet if she can have Pedialyte to keep her from becoming dehydrated and if he/she can prescribe something for her pain.

Please let us know how she is doing and know that we are sending love and healing energy to both of you. Hugs.

Barb

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Cranberry21
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Posts: 60
Location: New England
Country: United States
Pet name: Phoebe
My name: Debra

Re: Phoebe, Chronic Pancreatitis and Voracious/Starving

Post by Cranberry21 » 28 May 2021, 18:15

She gets gabapentin for pain (she also has arthritis) and trazadone for anxiety. I have Tramadol if needed but would have to stop the trazadone (avoid serotonin syndrome).

And I give her SQ fluids to prevent aggravating kidneys (she is IRIS stage 2). I also believe SQ helps her pancreas. Phoebe is not a big water drinker on her own.

With this diarrhea-fest this week I have used unflavored pedialyte in a limited way. I gave her some frozen ice chips and syringed a bit into the side of her mouth to keep her stable.

Do you have any ideas about good vegetable based enzymes (I have Optagest on hand). My sense is her pancreas is even less functioning than when I tried these before. And I only gave the teeniest amount. How do I go about testing whether these might help her esp with proteins? I also happen to have BioCase.

Thanks for the suggestions!

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Cranberry21
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Posts: 60
Location: New England
Country: United States
Pet name: Phoebe
My name: Debra

Re: Phoebe, Chronic Pancreatitis and Voracious/Starving

Post by Cranberry21 » 28 May 2021, 18:23

Barb wrote: 28 May 2021, 18:08 Debra,

I wish I had a magic wand that I could wave to help Phoebe. It is so hard to see our pups hurting and not be able to help them.

I agree with Olesia about asking your vet if she can have Pedialyte to keep her from becoming dehydrated and if he/she can prescribe something for her pain.

Please let us know how she is doing and know that we are sending love and healing energy to both of you. Hugs.

Barb
Yes, we have tried to cover hydration and pain for a a couple of years now. And this has been effective. Gabapentin/SQ fluids & pedialyte if really bad.

She’s much better today. Feisty demanding girl. Of course she hasn’t eaten much since the Big Night. The egg whites today seemed to upset her GI tract. I’m at a loss but my instinct is to go back to chicken. She did pretty well on it since her gallbladder removal. I know tho that sensitivities can change but as none of the other proteins have been better so far (I even tried a RX kangaroo) I don’t see the advantage in using them over chicken breast. The enemy you know…

Open to suggestions!

Thanks for the healing thoughts!

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