Phoebe, Chronic Pancreatitis and Voracious/Starving

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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Cranberry21
Member
Posts: 58
Location: New England
Country: United States
Pet name: Phoebe
My name: Debra

Re: Phoebe, Chronic Pancreatitis and Voracious/Starving

Post by Cranberry21 » 31 May 2021, 22:11

Thank you Madeline. Yes, the journal/notes do help.

I started Phoebe on plant-based digestive enzymes yesterday per Jill’s help. Poops have been crazy today. Semi-solid, mixed solid/mush, blobs, diarrhea.

I’m not sure how to give the DEnzymes with soft food. I’m sure there’s info on that somewhere or the manufacturer can guide me. Anyway, Phoebe seems to be doing sorta okay on a ramp-up amount.

Even though I give sub-q fluids, would love to see the diarrhea reduced/eliminated (no pun).

I’m really not sure what I’m supposed to expect or look for re: improvements.

Best to you!

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jilbert57
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Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: Phoebe, Chronic Pancreatitis and Voracious/Starving

Post by jilbert57 » 31 May 2021, 22:46

"One scoop of Total-Zymes® will digest one cup of any pet food. Total-Zymes® should be consumed just before or during meals. To mix with dry kibble add one scoop per cup of pet food in a small container with a snap on lid."

How much wet food are you using? I would adjust according to the 1 scoop TZ to 1c can food.

https://documentcloud.adobe.com/link/tr ... 03ea60ddf1

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have one pup. TJ is a 5 year old Jack Russell.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

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Cranberry21
Member
Posts: 58
Location: New England
Country: United States
Pet name: Phoebe
My name: Debra

Re: Phoebe, Chronic Pancreatitis and Voracious/Starving

Post by Cranberry21 » 01 Jun 2021, 00:26

Okay, so I’m feeding appox 4 oz wet home-cooked food per meal. But I’m not sure how to convert wet to dry kibble.

I suppose I need to go into nutriondata.com and do a wet food to Dry Matter conversion? (I know how do this for commercial foods with guaranteed analyses, but not sure what the method is for nutritiondata.) There is a lot of water (moisture) in the home-cooked food. And I’ve upped the puréed rice lately to try to firm up stools. So, um, I need to be more scientific.

Anyway, I did reduce the amount from a whole scoop to less. And then less to titrate the total amount up over a few days. I want to see if she has a horrible reaction (like pancreatitis).

I measured one scoop and it is approx 1/2 tsp, so I’ve given 1/32 tsp per meal (1/16 of a full dose). Tomorrow I’ll give 1/16 tsp (1/8 dose). In part I’m doing this cuz I’m not sure how the conversion from dry kibble to wet chicken/rice works. And looking for bad reaction.

She’s still having mixed stools, but less gas, at least today. But she seems kind of out of it.

Is there a “detox” effect at all? It seems strange and worrisome that she is quieter, less gassy, no real change in stools.

I’ll read the doc you linked to. Thank you Jill!

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Cranberry21
Member
Posts: 58
Location: New England
Country: United States
Pet name: Phoebe
My name: Debra

Re: Phoebe, Chronic Pancreatitis and Voracious/Starving

Post by Cranberry21 » 01 Jun 2021, 00:38

Ok. Just read the faq’s. I’ll continue to build up to full dose per cup. Or in her case 1/4 tsp for 4 oz (one half of a cup of food which would get 1/2 tsp mixed in). Does that make sense?

She is quieter…but perhaps she feels a little better? Or some initial effect?

Last stool smelled like fruit compost but was semi-solid, so that seems good.

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Olesia711
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Posts: 1987
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Phoebe, Chronic Pancreatitis and Voracious/Starving

Post by Olesia711 » 01 Jun 2021, 07:45

Hi Debra, I don't know what to advise/suggest with Pancreatitis above and beyond the basics, so i will leave you in Jill's capable hands, however i did want to pop on and just say I am thinking of you and Phoebe and sending tons of healing vibes in hope that Phoebe feels better soon!
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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jilbert57
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Posts: 1274
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: Phoebe, Chronic Pancreatitis and Voracious/Starving

Post by jilbert57 » 01 Jun 2021, 08:48

Good morning Debra.
Here is a link for figuring percentages for dry weight matter.

https://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/choosing ... ter-basis/

If it was me I would give the company a call and ask about incubation, how much to use in canned food, etc...

Contact us: (888) 207-3480

They also have a FB page.

Mickey had a lot of conflicting conditions but not a gut as reactive as Phoebe's. Have you thought about having a GI specialist look at her?

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have one pup. TJ is a 5 year old Jack Russell.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

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Cranberry21
Member
Posts: 58
Location: New England
Country: United States
Pet name: Phoebe
My name: Debra

Re: Phoebe, Chronic Pancreatitis and Voracious/Starving

Post by Cranberry21 » 01 Jun 2021, 16:27

Olesia711 wrote: 01 Jun 2021, 07:45 Hi Debra, I don't know what to advise/suggest with Pancreatitis above and beyond the basics, so i will leave you in Jill's capable hands, however i did want to pop on and just say I am thinking of you and Phoebe and sending tons of healing vibes in hope that Phoebe feels better soon!
Thank you Olesia. She’ll take all the healing vibes she is offered.

User avatar
Cranberry21
Member
Posts: 58
Location: New England
Country: United States
Pet name: Phoebe
My name: Debra

Re: Phoebe, Chronic Pancreatitis and Voracious/Starving

Post by Cranberry21 » 01 Jun 2021, 16:32

jilbert57 wrote: 01 Jun 2021, 08:48 Good morning Debra.
Here is a link for figuring percentages for dry weight matter.

https://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/choosing ... ter-basis/

If it was me I would give the company a call and ask about incubation, how much to use in canned food, etc...

Contact us: (888) 207-3480

They also have a FB page.

Mickey had a lot of conflicting conditions but not a gut as reactive as Phoebe's. Have you thought about having a GI specialist look at her?

Jill

I’ll give them a call re: what amount to be adding. As for a GI specialist it’s a great suggestion for a younger dog. I think we are beyond that now. We wouldn’t choose any invasive procedures and that is almost certainly what would be called for. It’s unfortunate that I couldn’t see ahead after her GB surgery to all of the pancreatitis. <3

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Cranberry21
Member
Posts: 58
Location: New England
Country: United States
Pet name: Phoebe
My name: Debra

Re: Phoebe, Chronic Pancreatitis and Voracious/Starving

Post by Cranberry21 » 01 Jun 2021, 17:14

I just spoke with them. They suggested for home-cooked food to measure how many cups and add a scoop per cup of food (or partial scoop proportional to partial cups). They said add it at prep time. And, yes, because of chronic pancreatitis incubate for 20 mins before feeding. Do not hear food. Room temp or lower.

I was told I should add full dose from beginning and that if I don’t see results in about a week, double the dose. I was told that I should see some improvement in belly issues in about 3 days. I was also told that the enzymes would not trigger a pancreatitis attack, that they are working on the food, not on the pancreas itself. So that even if somehow the whole container fell on the floor and Phoebe ate it, it would not harm her.

Longer term after belly issues start to resolve Phoebe should gain weight, coat would improve, and those sorts of things.

I suppose the only reason this wouldn’t happen is if the cause of her losing weight is not actually due to her pancreas not working sufficiently.

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jilbert57
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Posts: 1274
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: Phoebe, Chronic Pancreatitis and Voracious/Starving

Post by jilbert57 » 01 Jun 2021, 20:22

Sounds like a productive visit. I hope this helps Phoebe down the road.
Yes I just mentioned the specialist as she seems to me to have issues other than the pancreatitis that are not letting you get Phoebe resolved.
Good luck thanks for the update.
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have one pup. TJ is a 5 year old Jack Russell.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

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