Page 1 of 1

New here & would appreciate a bit of advice

Posted: 20 Mar 2021, 16:57
by reremedies
My dog was diagnosed with EPI after severe and sudden weight loss. I got some PancreaPlus and my dog went from 13 lbs to about 17 lbs in 10 days, which is great. She is a voracious eater, but yesterday she stopped eating after a few days of vomiting a little clear brown liquid. Not sure what this is. I've been incubating her enzymes for 20-30 minutes, and I've now cut back on them a bit. Today, her stomach is making really loud rumbling sounds. And she doesn't seem happy. Do I need to adjust something? Also, I read about vitamin E and Zinc deficiencies. So, if I am only treating her with the PancreaPlus am I missing something important?

Thanks for any advice!

Re: New here & would appreciate a bit of advice

Posted: 20 Mar 2021, 19:05
by Olesia711
Hi David,

Thanks for writing us and asking about this.... that clear brown liquid and those tummy noises.... that is most likely all SID (small intestinal dysbiosis)...... all dogs with EPI have SID, but.....we dont treat unless it gets out of hand... like what you are seeing.

Technically, if it was just the tummy noises and or loose stools all of a sudden after everythiing was going great, THEN we would normally suggest a prebiotic and if that doesn't work well enough then the next thig would be a probiotic with a prebiotic.... BUT.... since your gal (who by the way had a GREAT weight gain!!!!) is also vomiting, she probably would be better off with a course of Tylan (Tylosin Tartrate antibiotic soluble powder).

Please ask your vet for this. DO NOT let your vet give your dog Metronidazole )Flagyl) for any chronic gastrointestinal issues going forward. We are trying to educate vets now not to do this - - but most were taught that you give the Metronidazole as an antibiotic. Please don't as it may permanently kill certain bacterial strains (Metro kills good and bad bacteria where as Tylan only inhibit bacterial reproduction) and these poor EPI dogs have enough problems in the gut with (1) not enough bacteria (2) not enough bacterial strains variety!

You can actually order Tylan from Chewy, but your vet has to approve the order as Tylan is now a prescription:
here are the dosing instructions:
Please read this page regarding Tylan dosage.

Technically It is to be given twice a day with meals for 45 days...... BUT.... about halfway thru this course, talk to your vet about adding a good probiotic to the regimen. Tylan won't kill the probiotic (Metronidazole would !) and this way you can start adding good bacteria back into the gut. The only thing we caution everyone is when they start introducing a probiotic, start with less than half the recommended probiotic dose and work your way up to a full dose over the course of a week or two. (some dogs take time adjusting to a probiotic) . Currently we are recommending Visboime or Proviable... but you can also ask your vet what he/she would recommend as a good probiotic that has a prebiotic included in it.

Hope this helps.... and jsut a FYI..... having SID rear it's ugly head AFTER you started the enzymes and things seemed to be going great and then this happened.... well.... just so you know, this is very typical. Oh.. and go back to giving the full dose of enzymes with the food.

If you have any other concerns, just ask... anytime. :)

Re: New here & would appreciate a bit of advice

Posted: 21 Mar 2021, 06:04
by Jean
Good Morning David from the UK

The one big thing that worries me about Metronadazole is its side effects,

it also has neurological side effects which can only be dealt with by giving Valium

it will never be my choice of medication, the only other question is, is the vomitting of brown liquid at the start of the day, if so it could also be bile which is caused by an empty stomach, a late evering meal would help here, but I totally agree with Olesia about SID

Re: New here & would appreciate a bit of advice

Posted: 24 Mar 2021, 11:04
by jilbert57
Hi David, you have been given sound advice on the rumblings.
It helps if you keep a log of food and meds in and how they affect your pup.


Re: New here & would appreciate a bit of advice

Posted: 25 Mar 2021, 13:40
by Barb
Hi David,

You may already be doing this, but I was wondering if you are giving any B12 supplements. Your pup's issues seem to be SID related, but sometimes lack of appetite can be caused by low B12. Wonderlabs provides an excellent product that is an easy fix and is very reasonable. Many of us have used it over the years. It is B12 with Intrinsic Factor and is called Pet Factor. The Intrinsic factor is necessary for absorption for EPI dogs.

I didn't see any B12 levels in your post, so you may not need this (For EPI dogs B12 should be in the moderately high range 600 plus), but I just wanted to put it out there.


Re: New here & would appreciate a bit of advice

Posted: 05 Apr 2021, 20:00
by reremedies
Wow these responses are wonderful, thank you all! We are now roughly at the 6 week mark after treatment began,, and Binky is doing great. She has literally gotten fat. It's getting to the point where she is fatter than she has ever been in 7 years, and I'm glad to be out of the danger zone with the bony dog I had 2 months ago. But, I'm wondering now if I should reduce her food slightly to ovoid health problems in the other direction of weight. The brown liquid has gone for the most part only very occasionally seeing her vomit. That happened as I naturally adjusted her pancreatic enzymes based on her weight gaining which has been aggressive and her stool consistency. I will ask my vet about Tylan still though. As for B12, the vet said her blood levels were normal. Thanks for the tips. I have a great vet who I like, but she has never seen an EPI dog before, so this is really helpful.

Re: New here & would appreciate a bit of advice

Posted: 06 Apr 2021, 14:25
by Tuckaboo Pam
David, I, too, have a wonderful vet, who had never seen a case of EPI. I have found that some vet consult, a good helping of EPI4Dogs forum, and a touch of I'm with my dog 24/7, has been the healing cocktail that Tucker needed.

My advice would be, ask all the questions you have, here, but also peruse the site, especially the pages on Managing EPI, and you will get many of your questions answered, or your memory will be jogged about something you have forgotten to mention. This is in NO way meant to say don't ask until you've read the instructions, but sometimes just reading through all the categories can be helpful!

It would also be great if your vet was open to looking through the pages, herself. My third vet, the one who finally did Tucker's testing, has just been added to the EPI4 directory.

My Tucker has gotten better by using Diane's Enzymes, slippery elm, Proviable, Tylan, and the occasional B12 because for some reason his isn't low.

He got too chubby after treatment, too, and so I cut back his portion. He was an official "Chunky Monkey". Take care----Pam & Tucker