Tucker's Results Are In!!!!!!!

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
Tuckaboo Pam
Member
Posts: 714
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Tucker's Results Are In!!!!!!!

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 26 Mar 2021, 15:36

It has finally happened! Tucker's blood finally made it to Texas, and I've done my best to copy and paste the results. An interesting thing is, both times we stopped the B12, his poo became firmer. I noticed it the first time, when we stopped for a week before the test. This second time, I stopped ten days early, because I was afraid I'd forget, and his poo was even better. I don't know what to make of it. But here are the TAMU results!!! What do you guys think?

Interval Assay Date
'Cobalamin Fasting 666 ng/L 251-908 03/25/21

Interpretation: Result is within the reference interval.

'Folate Fasting 9.7 μg/L 7.7-24.4 03/25/21

Interpretation: Result is within the reference interval.

'Pancreatic Lipase Immunoreactivity Fasting 38 μg/L ≤200 03/24/21

Interpretation: Result within the reference interval.

'TLI Fasting 1.3 μg/L 5.7-45.2 03/25/21

Interpretation: Diagnostic for exocrine pancreatic insufficiency (EPI).

GI
Tucker is a shepherd/lab mix; he has tested positive on the ScheBo test for EPI, as well as the fasting TLI. Results--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Currently taking Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlab B12 one capsule per day, slippery elm 1/8 teaspoon twice/day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon twice/day (to hold SID at bay). Sport Dog Elite, herding dogs 3 1/2 cups/day. No more poop eating, has gone from 60 to 80 pounds, and he is a happy member of the family, though a bit of a stinker, if you ask the other dogs. Tucker is my boyfriend, and my husband is OK with that.

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jilbert57
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Posts: 1271
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: Tucker's Results Are In!!!!!!!

Post by jilbert57 » 26 Mar 2021, 16:29

Yay! Glad to see Tucker finally got his results back.
That is weird about the B12. I know stools usually firm up with B12 supplementation in IBD.
Have you tried supplementing with only 1 capsule a day?

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have one pup. TJ is a 5 year old Jack Russell.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

Tuckaboo Pam
Member
Posts: 714
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: Tucker's Results Are In!!!!!!!

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 26 Mar 2021, 16:40

I used to only give him one, until I realized recently that he was supposed to get two. So, yes, I think I will go back to just one. The vet said everything else was normal, but the B12 is low for an EPI dog, right?---Pam
Tucker is a shepherd/lab mix; he has tested positive on the ScheBo test for EPI, as well as the fasting TLI. Results--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Currently taking Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlab B12 one capsule per day, slippery elm 1/8 teaspoon twice/day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon twice/day (to hold SID at bay). Sport Dog Elite, herding dogs 3 1/2 cups/day. No more poop eating, has gone from 60 to 80 pounds, and he is a happy member of the family, though a bit of a stinker, if you ask the other dogs. Tucker is my boyfriend, and my husband is OK with that.

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jilbert57
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Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: Tucker's Results Are In!!!!!!!

Post by jilbert57 » 26 Mar 2021, 19:12

I always perceived an Epi dogs B12 level needed to be in the upper to high range so maybe 700-750 or higher? Someone else might have a better number.

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have one pup. TJ is a 5 year old Jack Russell.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

Tuckaboo Pam
Member
Posts: 714
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: Tucker's Results Are In!!!!!!!

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 26 Mar 2021, 19:29

AND, I haven't complained about this too many times, I think, but this one thing always nagged at me, and made me worried the vet may have gotten it wrong. It is also why I so desperately wanted to be able to afford the TLI test. Tucker's poop is usually pretty nice, BUT he still poops 6-8 times a day! Down from 12 or so at the beginning, but it's still a lot. Nearly every time we go outside, he finds a corner & poops, and it's usually a good amount. I would love for this to whittle down to 2-3. Any suggestions? Over time, could he just be conditioned & going outside triggers the urge? But then where is it all coming from? I swear, the volume is more than the 4 cups of food he eats daily.
Tucker is a shepherd/lab mix; he has tested positive on the ScheBo test for EPI, as well as the fasting TLI. Results--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Currently taking Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlab B12 one capsule per day, slippery elm 1/8 teaspoon twice/day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon twice/day (to hold SID at bay). Sport Dog Elite, herding dogs 3 1/2 cups/day. No more poop eating, has gone from 60 to 80 pounds, and he is a happy member of the family, though a bit of a stinker, if you ask the other dogs. Tucker is my boyfriend, and my husband is OK with that.

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Madelon
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Posts: 1289
Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
State: Tennessee
Pet name: Doc

Re: Tucker's Results Are In!!!!!!!

Post by Madelon » 26 Mar 2021, 21:54

Glad you finally got the test results. I personally think the reason the B12 is not as high as most when they re-test is if you stopped supplementing prior to testing. I know that is what Texas A&M recommends but in my personal opinion I disagree with it - the point is to see where the B12 is with the current supplementing so why would you stop it prior to testing? The reason Texas A&M gives is so that you can see how much B12 your dog can hold on it's own but again I'm more interested in what my dog's B12 level is with the supplementing I'm doing so I know if I need to increase or decrease. As for the poops - didn't you recently switch to Taste of the Wild? Usually when they are pooping that much but everything else is good it's either the enzymes need tweaking or it's the food. Doc poops less on Sport Dog Food than he did on the others.
MADELON and Doc. DX EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
Test Results: (1st) 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; (2nd) 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; (3rd) 10/2015 TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4. Prior to DX: May 2014 (2mos) - DX coccidia/bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Dx SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May 2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop. Regimen: 4 cups Sport Dog Food Elite Herding - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 1/2tsp Slippery Elm 2xday; Multivitamin; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Salmon Oil

Tuckaboo Pam
Member
Posts: 714
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: Tucker's Results Are In!!!!!!!

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 27 Mar 2021, 06:32

Hi Madelon---Well, we switched to TOTW a few months ago, I think, but all this poo has been pretty consistent throughout the whole process. It is relatively easy to pick up, though not as firm as my other big dog's, who does not eat grain-free. I have tried feeding him less than the recommended amount, but then he always loses weight.

I am curious to hear from you experts, about his EPI. What does that number mean. Besides the fact that it confirms EPI, is there any significance?

I don't know what would have happened to Tuck, if I had just listened to my vet, who did send me to another vet, but still, EPI was my idea, and that is disconcerting to me. If that story about the rescue who couldn't gain weight because of EPI, hadn't crossed my Facebook page, how would we have ever figured it out? I do know that no vet or doctor can know everything, so I just try and focus on gratitude that this all came together.

I am so thankful to have you all to help along the way, and to people who have shared cost-cutting measures, this has kept us afloat. Tucker is the only one of my rescues that I got as a young puppy, and he means the world to me.

This sounds like I think I just won an Oscar. lol.----Pam & Tucker
Tucker is a shepherd/lab mix; he has tested positive on the ScheBo test for EPI, as well as the fasting TLI. Results--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Currently taking Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlab B12 one capsule per day, slippery elm 1/8 teaspoon twice/day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon twice/day (to hold SID at bay). Sport Dog Elite, herding dogs 3 1/2 cups/day. No more poop eating, has gone from 60 to 80 pounds, and he is a happy member of the family, though a bit of a stinker, if you ask the other dogs. Tucker is my boyfriend, and my husband is OK with that.

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Madelon
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Posts: 1289
Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
State: Tennessee
Pet name: Doc

Re: Tucker's Results Are In!!!!!!!

Post by Madelon » 27 Mar 2021, 10:29

I too am glad you listened to your gut and started treating Tucker for EPI. You're right, vets just like human doctors can't know everything and sometimes with the more rare conditions, they like to rule out the common conditions first.

As for the numbers - there is no significance to the TLI number other than it confirms EPI. However, I forgot to address your question about the B12 number - we recommend it to be 600+ so you are there but not by a lot - but since you stopped supplementing prior to the blood draw that is likely the reason so it's not an indication of whether you need one or two B12 pills - HOWEVER - it does mean that Tucker is able to hold some B12 without supplementing which is good. When I had Doc's B12 retested I did not stop supplementing and it was over 1,000. Doc has been on two B12 pills for years and I tried again recently to reduce to 1 pill - it's been about a week and he threw up bile this am (although even on 2 pills a day this sometimes happens) and he's got lots of tummy gurgling so I will be going back to 2 pills a day and see if gurgling stops - if so then I know for sure he needs 2 pills a day forever (this will be the second time trying to reduce B12).

As for the poops - if there too much poop it's likely the food - if it's just that it's not quite as firm but still logs with segments then I wouldn't worry - Doc's are not near as firm as my other dog's poop but whether that's partly an EPI thing or just a Doc thing I'm not sure - as long as the weight is good and they are formed I'll take it :)
MADELON and Doc. DX EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
Test Results: (1st) 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; (2nd) 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; (3rd) 10/2015 TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4. Prior to DX: May 2014 (2mos) - DX coccidia/bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Dx SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May 2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop. Regimen: 4 cups Sport Dog Food Elite Herding - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 1/2tsp Slippery Elm 2xday; Multivitamin; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Salmon Oil

Tuckaboo Pam
Member
Posts: 714
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: Tucker's Results Are In!!!!!!!

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 27 Mar 2021, 11:59

Thanks Madelon. I may just start giving him a B12 every other day & see how things go. After we adjust to that, I may go back to SDE. He loved it, and I think I'll try the working dog formula this time. He's fine with turkey. Sorry, thinking out loud. I'm just so excited, knowing he doesn't have Lyme's disease or something else.---Pam
Tucker is a shepherd/lab mix; he has tested positive on the ScheBo test for EPI, as well as the fasting TLI. Results--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Currently taking Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlab B12 one capsule per day, slippery elm 1/8 teaspoon twice/day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon twice/day (to hold SID at bay). Sport Dog Elite, herding dogs 3 1/2 cups/day. No more poop eating, has gone from 60 to 80 pounds, and he is a happy member of the family, though a bit of a stinker, if you ask the other dogs. Tucker is my boyfriend, and my husband is OK with that.

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Jean
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Posts: 1286
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: Tucker's Results Are In!!!!!!!

Post by Jean » 27 Mar 2021, 13:40

yippee

wrong word I know, but at least you are now sure

Just keep going as you are and keep an eye on everything advised
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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