FLATULENCE

[lindalowy]

HELLO,

Does anyone have any suggestions for GAS? Our chocolate lab was diagnosed one year ago at age one with EPI. It took us many months to stabilize her. Even though her weight is up and her blood work was perfect as of this week, she still has bouts of gas even when NOTHING has changed in her diet. She is a very lucky girl and on FOOD FOR DOGS,.. which is a place that makes grain free natural food for dogs in Los Angeles... full of meat and veggies and vitamins, etc. We feed her 4x/day about 1 1/2 cups per feeding to keep her weight between 50-53lbs.... which is low but she's a small lab and super active. Any ideas out there about what to do at the onset of Gas that goes on for a few days? Is this something EPI dog just live with it? Ugh. We give her prilosec (acid reflux) about once per day in addition to her enzymes.

Also, we are using enzymes called PancrePlus which are very expensive. I don't want to change the formula but would love to spend less. Any suggestions?

Very grateful for any thoughts because the Vet doesn't have any when it comes to food or supplements or GAS!! Shocker.

MANY THANKS,
LL

[Tuckaboo Pam]

Hi, Linda, and welcome! Let me start by saying----

Enzyme Diane ®- Supplements for EPI https://enzymediane.com ----will change your life!!!! Her product is wonderful it's affordable, and her customer service is great. I believe a majority of us here on the forum use her enzymes.

Your dog's toots----has she ever been treated for SID? There are all kinds of tabs & links you can explore, while you wait for someone on staff to respond, so look that one up and see what you think. Many of our dogs take Wonderlabs Pet Factor B12, and either slippery elm or Tylan (prescription), to help get the Small Intestinal Dysbiosis under control.

So, she weighs 53 & she eats about 6 cups/day? Is that the recommended amount of that special food you give her, or do you find that she loses weight on less? I'm asking because my 80-pounder only eats 4 cups/day total, so your serving seems like a lot & I wonder if that makes her gassy. But, like I said, I don't know the specifics of that food or of Linda's metabolism.

Once again, welcome to the group, and my advice is, provide as much information as you can, and don't be shy about posting & asking questions. Something I like to do is, look at the bottom of some of the posts, and you will see the history & what has worked for some of our dogs. Also, this forum is led by some really smart people, so you are in good hands, here. They'll be along, soon.

Take Care---Pam & Tucker

[Madelon]

Hi Linda - welcome to our EPI family.

Are you supplementing B12? What do the poops look like?

With regard to the "toots" - it is likely SID flaring up. All EPI dogs have SID it's just a matter of keeping it under control. My first thought would be to make sure you are supplementing B12. If you're not supplementing B12 then I highly recommend using WonderLabs Pet Factor B12 pills (use code EPI4DOGS15 to get a 20% discount). Next I would recommend trying Slippery Elm Bark Powder (here's the link with dosing instructions https://epi4dogs.com/slippery-elm/) we have found great results using SE to deal with SID. You can order it from WonderLabs as well. If you don't notice any improvement within a few days then you might need a course of Tylan antibiotic powder.

As for the enzymes - as Pam said most of us use EnzymeDiane - her enzymes are much less expensive, no prescription required and shipped directly to you. I've been using her enzymes for 6yrs - without her I wouldn't have been able to afford to keep my German Shepherd.

[jilbert57]

Is there broccoli, cabbage, and or cauliflower in the food? No matter how regularly I would feed these gas was the result.

Jill

[Olesia711]

Hi LL, everyone gave you some really great suggestions- -and i agree with every single one ... and that this is good old SID (small intestinal dysbiosis getting a wee bit out of control).
As you probably know by now, it all depends from one dog to the next what the "right" balance of things are..... so in short, something needs to be modified in what you are doing to address the gas..... BUT... i also want to mentioned that it sounds like you are doing a great job already. But some suggested things to look at / or try... but try these things one at a time.
Oh... and i too recommend EnzymeDiane... look at her 6x product... that is comparable to what you are using....
like the 1 kilo of enzymes since you get about 3 times as much as what vets sell you (35oz vs. 12oz) for about the same price https://enzymediane.com/product/pancreatin-6x-1-kilo/

1. try giving a pinch more enzymes ... maybe increase the enzyme by 1/8 tsp more.... watch for 3 to 5 days see if this helps any.
2. if there is any broccoli , etc like what Jill mentioned, that could be the problem and have them remove it (if possible) .
3. was your dog's B12 checked? over 80% of all dogs with EPI have insufficient B12 levels ... and they need to have upper mid range levels of at least in the 500's to 600's.
4. When SID gets out of control, we first suggest using prebiotics to see if feeding the existing bacteria will help enough to re-populate the gut flora to get things working better. (Unfortunately EPI dogs do not have enough bacteria in their gut nor do they have enough variety)... SLippery Elm is a soluble fiber (which has wonderful prebiotic properties and is a mucilage which researchers "suspect" may stop the bad metabolites from getting in the perforations in the gut lining caused by SID...
5. If Slippery Elm powder (give very little https://epi4dogs.com/slippery-elm/ ) based on weight.... if it doesn't help or doesn't help enough.... then we suggest giving a probiotic with a prebiotic. (CUrrently we are suggesting Proviable, Visbiome, VetriScience, etc).... BUT when introducing a probiotic, ALWAYS start off with less than half the recommended dose and then work your way up to a full dose over the course of a week.
6. If ALL of the above fails to correct the problem..... then talk to your vet about trying a course of Tylan (Tylosin Tartrate antibiotic soluble powder https://www.chewy.com/tylan-soluble-powder/dp/173769 . Do NOT let your vet prescribe Metronidazole/Flagyl... New research is stating NOT to use Metro for ANY chronic gastrointestinal issue... as Metro kills ALL bacteria (which they already knew.... but, some of the bacteria it kill can never be replaced in the body no matter how many probiotics you give the dog... so with chronic gastro conditions... they are Strongly advising to stay away from Metro.

Hope this helps and please keep us posted!

[lindalowy]

Hi Olesia711

THANK YOU so much for your wonderful reply. I can't tell you how comforted and relieved we are by all of the responses. We've had quite a struggle with this over the last year but are finally making huge strides now that KITTY just turned 2. She had her B12 checked in the last two weeks and it was (for the first time) normal so we are only giving her shots one/month. I just received the B12 supplements and the Slippery Elm powder from Wonder labs today so I will try one at a time. The gas has been very minimal this week. It goes in and out. If she gets into something like grass or I hate to say it, dog poop, (how do I get her to stop being interested in that??), she will have horrible gas. And then sometimes out of the blue it will just happen for no reason. i hope the Slippery Elm will help. Also, every now and again her poop is super soft after she's had a completely normal poop when we haven't changed a thing. But, she's better and better and as time goes on; more stable and healthy. She looks great now. She got used to eating poop when she was starving a year ago and we didn't know what was wrong with her. They didn't test her for EPI because it's so rare for LABS. We went thru two rounds of FLAGL for weeks and weeks before they tested her for EPI. She was down to 41 lbs and we were losing our minds.
She's now a sleek and healthy 52lbs (she's a small chocolate).
I'm going to order from DIANES for my enzymes ASAP. That is a game changer.
THANK YOU SO MUCH for this forum. It's literally a lifesaver.
All the best, LL

[Olesia711]

the best that we can do is try to keep the SID in as good of control as possible.... in other words, you know your dog has SID just because of the EPI condition, but the goal is to try to make slight adjustments until you get the SID symptoms to a minimum... again, it sounds like you are doing a great job overall of managing your dog's EPI condition and all the lovely little quirks that come with it, like SID and low B12 !

regarding the poo eating..... this happens a LOT with these EPI dogs.... it starts off as a necessity and sometimes ends up as a learned bad habit....however, the good news is that it as the dog's EPI condition becomes well maintained little by little the poo eating subsides. What you can try though is add a little crushed canned pineapple (like 1 tsp) to the meals... and sometimes this deters them from eating poo. Supposedly it tastes good going in, but not so much when it comes out the other end !

continue the good work, and feel free to ask any questions you may still have and Happy Easter!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!