New to EPI

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
storm
Member
Posts: 7
Country: Canada
Pet name: Storm
My name: Debbie

New to EPI

Post by storm » 31 Mar 2021, 08:19

Hi my beautiful 3.5 year old german shep. has just been diagnoses with EPI. The information is overwhelming. I live in Canada and wondering what kibble people have had the most success with. He is currently on Orijen 6 fish, but I am noticing some face rubbing so possibly some alergy to it. His stools are perfect and we have only been on the enzymes for a few days Any and all suggestions welcome.

Tuckaboo Pam
Member
Posts: 591
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: New to EPI

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 31 Mar 2021, 14:50

Hi, Debbie, and welcome to you and Storm. I'm not sure if the same foods that are available to me, are available to you, but the one my Tucker does well on is called Sport Dog Elite, for herding dogs. They have a variety. BUT, I wonder if the enzymes are bothering Storm's snout, because this happens to Tucker sometimes. He will cry & scratch his snout, and if I wipe it off I often find a little blood. Soaking a paper towel with water, and wiping down his snout & gums after he eats, is helpful. I have also put aqufor on his snout before a meal, as a barrier.

Tell us a little bit more about your regimen, what kind of enzymes you use, how you prepare them with the his meal, and anything else you are giving. And, if you don't mind sharing the test results, this will give the staff a better picture. Good job on getting those poops fixed up so fast!

Please stay in touch, and ask as many questions as you want!---Pam & Tucker
Tucker is a shepherd/lab mix; he has tested positive on the ScheBo test for EPI, as well as the fasting TLI. Results--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Currently taking Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlab B12 capsules 2-3 per week, slippery elm 1/2 teaspoon/day, Proviable 1 capsule/day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon/day. Sport Dog Elite, herding dogs 4 cups/day. No more poop eating, his weight is steady, and he is a happy member of the family, though a bit of a stinker, if you ask the other dogs. Tucker is my boyfriend, and my husband is OK with that.

Barb
Staff
Posts: 624
Country: United States
State: New Jersey

Re: New to EPI

Post by Barb » 31 Mar 2021, 21:02

Hi Debbie,
A warm welcome to you and Storm. It sounds like Storm is responding well. Good poos already! That's a great beginning.

I am guessing that the nose rubbing has to do with the enzymes, not the food. How long has he been on the Orijen fish? Pam gave some good suggestions on keeping the enzymes from bothering him. Wiping his nose and mouth with a wet paper towel after eating will help. You might also want to use a little more water with the enzymes until he gets used to them.

Keeping a log/journal of everything you give Storm each day, the amounts and the resulting poos will help you to see what is working and what needs to be adjusted, and will keep you from feeling overwhelmed. But you are doing a great job already.

Do you know if they tested Storm's B12 level (cobalamin) and Folate? They often do it at the same time they do the TLI test. If you can get those numbers that will give us more information.

Try not to feel too overwhelmed. The beginning stage is the hardest, when you are trying to absorb all the new information while worrying about your pup. It will get easier. We all know how you feel. Besides, you are already seeing good poos, which is amazing. Let us know your questions.

Barb

storm
Member
Posts: 7
Country: Canada
Pet name: Storm
My name: Debbie

Re: New to EPI

Post by storm » 01 Apr 2021, 09:31

His TLI 1.7 Cobalamin 142 and Folate 17 He has been on the Orijen 6 fish about 3 months now. He was on pills Viokace but I managed to get him real pancreas yesterday and started him on that last night. His poo this morning was well formed a tiny bit soft but fairly large. I am assuming his system would have to adjust. I am starting at 3 oz per meal
Your Tucker sounds sweet and my husband is ok with Storm being my boyfriend too lol . Where I live I have to order most stuff I was thinking of putting him on slippery elm and my Vet says we will see about B12 injections after a couple of weeks since he is responding so well right now and it was just low by a bit.
I have been printing articles and putting them in a binder with my journal. It is all a bit overwhelming

Tuckaboo Pam
Member
Posts: 591
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: New to EPI

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 01 Apr 2021, 13:44

Hi again, Debbie. I have read on this forum, that real pancreas can be tricky. The hard part is knowing how much enzyme you are actually giving, so check back if you start seeing issues, and somebody who knows about it can help you. Hang in there!---Pam
Tucker is a shepherd/lab mix; he has tested positive on the ScheBo test for EPI, as well as the fasting TLI. Results--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Currently taking Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlab B12 capsules 2-3 per week, slippery elm 1/2 teaspoon/day, Proviable 1 capsule/day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon/day. Sport Dog Elite, herding dogs 4 cups/day. No more poop eating, his weight is steady, and he is a happy member of the family, though a bit of a stinker, if you ask the other dogs. Tucker is my boyfriend, and my husband is OK with that.

User avatar
Madelon
President
Posts: 1261
Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
State: Tennessee
Pet name: Doc

Re: New to EPI

Post by Madelon » 01 Apr 2021, 20:48

Hi Debbie! Welcome to our EPI family. Do watch for a possible allergy with the fish food - that happened to my Doc after being diagnosed with EPI and I switched his food to one that included fish and fit the EPI recommendations. However, like Pam said it could also be the enzymes if the powder is not mixed in well. The B12 is quite low - are you supplementing B12? It is critical to properly managing EPI.

As for the raw pancreas - some have used it and been fine but the amount of enzymes vary from one organ to the next so it can be difficult because there is no exact measurement.

Keep us posted.
MADELON and Doc. DX EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
Test Results: (1st) 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; (2nd) 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; (3rd) 10/2015 TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4. Prior to DX: May 2014 (2mos) - DX coccidia/bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Dx SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May 2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop. Regimen: 4 cups Sport Dog Food Elite Herding - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 1/2tsp Slippery Elm 2xday; Multivitamin; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Salmon Oil

storm
Member
Posts: 7
Country: Canada
Pet name: Storm
My name: Debbie

Re: New to EPI

Post by storm » 03 Apr 2021, 11:00

I will order the B12 right now started raw pancreas on Wed evening and this morning stool was ok but just went for walk and it was pure sloppy runs. So should I stay on raw pancreas or go back to the viokace pills My vet said in her experience people had better luck with raw but each dog is different so still in the experiment stage

Tuckaboo Pam
Member
Posts: 591
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: New to EPI

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 03 Apr 2021, 15:43

This is what many of us use, and I'm not sure I've seen it mentioned in this conversation, NOR am I certain Canada is one of the countries she ships to. I should know this, oh well.

ENZYME-DIANE: GENERIC PANCREATIN (USA known source) (available in the US but can be shipped to certain countries outside of the US)

The product is great, and customer service is stellar. Oh, and it's affordable. ----Pam
Tucker is a shepherd/lab mix; he has tested positive on the ScheBo test for EPI, as well as the fasting TLI. Results--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Currently taking Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlab B12 capsules 2-3 per week, slippery elm 1/2 teaspoon/day, Proviable 1 capsule/day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon/day. Sport Dog Elite, herding dogs 4 cups/day. No more poop eating, his weight is steady, and he is a happy member of the family, though a bit of a stinker, if you ask the other dogs. Tucker is my boyfriend, and my husband is OK with that.

Barb
Staff
Posts: 624
Country: United States
State: New Jersey

Re: New to EPI

Post by Barb » 03 Apr 2021, 20:15

Yes, I think the big issue with the raw pancreas is that you can't be sure that the amount your pup is getting is consistent. But if you feel it is working, stay with it. We used Enzyme Diane's pancreatin for many, many years and it worked really well.

I am glad you are getting the B12 supplement. We recommend that the B12 level should be 600 plus because it can drop so fast and it is so important. Storm's level is quite low. But it is an easy fix. If he receives more than he needs, he will just pee out the excess.

Barb

storm
Member
Posts: 7
Country: Canada
Pet name: Storm
My name: Debbie

Re: New to EPI

Post by storm » 08 Apr 2021, 15:43

Can anyone tell me if I add green tripe back into his diet if I should reduce the pancreas as tripe has a digestive enzyme too?

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