My girl Lucy has EPI

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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racindad48
Member
Posts: 2
Country: United States
State: Arizona
Pet name: Lucy
My name: Tim

My girl Lucy has EPI

Post by racindad48 » 24 Apr 2021, 16:29

Hi
My name is Tim and Lucy is a beautiful GSD. She is 16 mo old and was diagnosed with EPI about 1 month ago. She went from 95 lb to 70 lb in just a few short weeks. I got very lucky and found a great vet that had seen this before. The vet put Lucy on Viokase-V 2 1/2 teaspoons 3 times a day. She said Lucy's numbers where less than 0.1 and that is why we need to give her so much. She also has her on a Hills I/D gastro intestinal low fat Prescription diet. (at this rate it will cost me 20k a year) I love my Lucy and will do what ever it takes no mater what but I could use so advise!!!! I found a non prescription powder called Bio case that is way cheaper and has really good reviews that I plan on switching her over too. My plan is to give her 3 teaspoons 3 times a day as that is what it will take to keep the Lipase units the same as the Viokase.
Is this correct?
Also my Vet did prescribe her Metronidazole twice for 10 days each time.
So to wrap this up Lucy has been on Viokase for 4 weeks now along with the low fat food and pills and She if filling great along with getting her energy back. but she continues to have loose stool. Not as loose as before but not logs either. And I should mention Lucy is not losing any more weight but she is not putting any on eather.
SHOULD I BE DOING MORE???????

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jilbert57
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Posts: 2090
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: My girl Lucy has EPI

Post by jilbert57 » 24 Apr 2021, 18:27

Hi Tim,
the amount of powdered enzyme you give depends on the amount of food that is fed at each meal. The starting point is usually 1 level teaspoon enzyme per 1 level cup of kibble. Mix, add small amount of water and stir. let incubate for 15 to 20 minutes and stir again before serving.

Very nice less expensive enzymes are available also at www.enzymediane.com. Diane had an Epi dog Sarge and started the enzyme business to make enzymes more affordable for all pet owners.

Unless Lucy has a condition which requires low fat you can feed a non prescription food. What works for most Epi pets is a grain free food, please restrict the amount of pea and pea protein and lentil, and 4% fiber or less. Taste of the Wild is popular and also Sport Dog Herding Elite brand.

Do you know if your vet tested the B12 also? The B12(cobalamin) in an Epi dog needs to be in the upper high range so around 600. You can supplement with oral and/or get or give B12 shots..

Your vet must have suspected SID/SIBO for the Metro. If after the 10 days you still hear tummy rumblings and gas please ask your vet for a prescription for Tylan powder, a 45 day course.

Up under the banner on the left is a HOME button. If you click on it it will take you to a lot of very informative links.

https://epi4dogs.com/dog-food-options/


Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

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Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 3857
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: My girl Lucy has EPI

Post by Olesia711 » 24 Apr 2021, 20:59

Hi Tim,

I just read your post and Jill's response... SHe covered all the basics with you.... but YES,,,, there are LOTS of tricks to greatly reduce the expense of taking care of an EPI dog.

SOme of the basics are to switch to a non-prescription/brand name enzymes to generic enzymes. I too highly recommend EnzymeDiane's 6x powder. https://enzymediane.com/. My vet started me on Pancrezyme (its like Viokase) and it was going to cost me $1200 a year just for enzymes.... i switched to Enzyme Diane and my cost immediately dropped to $400 a year, The once my dog was stable, i was able to reduce the amount of enzymes to the lowest dose possible that she could take and still maintain the EPI... which further reduced my cost to only $200 a year. Of course this was a few years ago...and prices have gone up on everything.... but it gives you an idea of how much you can save by using Quality generic enzymes. And yes... when changing enzymes... you want the lipase USP units to be approx the same value (usually around 71,400... give or take a few thousand is okay)

Regarding a prescription low fat dog food.... an EPI dog requiring low fat is old protocol... this has long since been debunked. Your dog can eat regular over the counter dog food with normal amounts of fat in it (unless she has another health condition that requires her to limit her fat intake) ... however... fiber can inhibit the efficacy of the enzymes from anywhere from 0% to 50%..... this is why we recommend a "grain-free food" at least in the beginning.... to start with a food that won't destroy the efficacy of the enzymes... and later, if things work out, once the dog is stable you can try regular food with a little higher fiber content and just see how well or not your dog handles it.

I strongly advise calling your vet and asking them to swap out the Metro for Tylan....

As Jill mentioned, you start with 1 level tsp of enzymes per 1 cup of food... Some times you need to adjust up or down, but this is the ratio that you should begin with. Enzymes need to be given with every meal. IN the beginning it is best to feed 150% of what Lucy typically would require for her size... but..... feed in multiple smaller meals. This could be why she is not gaining weight along with possible/most likely low B12.

One thing that wasn't mentioned..... B12. WHich could be another reason why she is not gaining ay weight. You can be doing EVERYTHING right, but if her B12 is low or low normal... she will not be able to fully recover. Unfortunately, most EPI dogs have low B12... the stats are over 80% of all EPI dogs need B12 supplementation. The good thing about B12 is that it is water soluble and if you give her too much she will just pee it out. Do you know if they tested her B12? if so, what was the results?
If you need B12, you can order Wonderlabs Pet Factor B12 .. https://www.wonderlabs.com/itemleft.php?itemnum=K9688
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

racindad48
Member
Posts: 2
Country: United States
State: Arizona
Pet name: Lucy
My name: Tim

Re: My girl Lucy has EPI

Post by racindad48 » 24 Apr 2021, 21:01

Thank you for the replies. Yes the vet did test for the B12. She was in the middle to normal range and told us that no B 12 supplement was needed.

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Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 3857
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: My girl Lucy has EPI

Post by Olesia711 » 24 Apr 2021, 21:13

look at the actual value.... mid range is not good enough... with EPI it needs to be in the upper mid range. Check the values.... iit needs to be mid 500's to the 600's... then she is okay... anything lower and she should be on B12.

WIth these dogs the reason why they need to be at least upper mid range is because with EPi the B12 can plummet dramatically........so we need to keep it up.
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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