Newly Diagnoised

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
Tuckaboo Pam
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Posts: 1345
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: Newly Diagnoised

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 29 Jul 2021, 11:04

Shawn, here's what I would do--- increase the SE, like Jill said. AND, I can't help but wonder if Piper may have some tenderness in her mouth, caused by the enzymes. Maybe she is trying to soothe herself after she eats. Poor Tucker has swelling around his lips in the back, and I try to remember to follow his meals with a dripping wet paper towel, wiped around as much as he will let me, inside & out. I also apply aquaphor to the outside.

I have heard others recommend throwing a few pieces of kibble into a bowl of water, to get them to sort of rinse out after they eat. Enzymes can be very caustic. Before I knew about the problem with breathing them in, I got my lungs all irritated from the "clouds". Now I hold breath. I include this only as evidence they can be irritating. ---Pam
Tucker was a shepherd/lab mix--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Took Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlabs B12 one capsule per day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon/ morning (to hold SID at bay). Taste of the Wild High Prairie, 1 1/2 cups/day, with a total of 4 cups of Fresh Pet. Stopped eating everything in sight, and went from 60 to 85 pounds! Tucker was my boyfriend, and my husband was OK with that. Tucker succumbed to hemangiosarcoma, but we cherished every day we had with that wonderful, beautiful boy. I will always, always miss my sweet big boy.

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PipersMom
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Posts: 164
Country: United States
State: New Jersey
Pet name: Piper
My name: Shawn

Re: Newly Diagnoised

Post by PipersMom » 29 Jul 2021, 12:50

Tuckaboo Pam wrote: 29 Jul 2021, 11:04 Shawn, here's what I would do--- increase the SE, like Jill said. AND, I can't help but wonder if Piper may have some tenderness in her mouth, caused by the enzymes. Maybe she is trying to soothe herself after she eats. Poor Tucker has swelling around his lips in the back, and I try to remember to follow his meals with a dripping wet paper towel, wiped around as much as he will let me, inside & out. I also apply aquaphor to the outside.

I have heard others recommend throwing a few pieces of kibble into a bowl of water, to get them to sort of rinse out after they eat. Enzymes can be very caustic. Before I knew about the problem with breathing them in, I got my lungs all irritated from the "clouds". Now I hold breath. I include this only as evidence they can be irritating. ---Pam
I am currently giving Piper a little less then 1/2 tsp with each feeding (twice a day). It just says 1/2 tsp for 30 to 80 lbs. Her gums, lips and roof of mouth all look good with no sores and no redness. She gets The Farmers Dog which is Fresh food that is wet already. When I add the enzymes I do add a little extra water. I will even give her ice cubes after she eats as she loves ice cubes so that is also extra liquid. I will up the SE to the actual dose.

PS, I too have breathed in the "clouds" not fun at all.
Shawn, from NJ. Piper is Chow Chow, German Shepherd, Catahoula Leopard Dog, Bluetick Coonhound, Boxer, Border Collie, and Pit. Born 8/28/19.

EPI Diagnoised
: 4/7/21 (cTLI-1.8, B-12-<150, Folate->24). Started Enzymes 4/8/21. Piper's weight dropped to 45 but was a is a steady 50lbs. Lowest weight 42lbs. As of 4/5/21 B12 was 505. As of 12/14/22 was 830
Daily Meds: PancreVed Powder with each meal, B-12 1000mg every other day, Proin 25 mg BID, Gabapentin 150mg BID, Proviable-Forte Capsule, Priolosec 20mg and Incurin .5mg. If needed: Galiprant, Cerenia, Tylan
Current Food: Homemade food by me with a vet nutritionist recipe that has added vitamins and minerals.

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Madelon
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Posts: 1317
Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
State: Tennessee
Pet name: Doc

Re: Newly Diagnoised

Post by Madelon » 01 Aug 2021, 13:58

Hi! I would use the full dose of SE and see how it goes. I mix mine in a separate bowl with a little water and then put it right on top of the food just before serving it. In the meantime like Pam said, I would look at her lips and muzzle to see if there is any irritation from the enzymes. If not, then I would try giving Omeprazole 30 minutes before feeding - if the food is a wet type food as you've described just get a tiny amount after mixing in the enzymes - put 1 omeprazole pill in it (like a meatball) and give it to Piper 30 minutes before serving her food. Doc gets 1 omeprazole 30 minutes before each meal to help with acid/bile.
Madelon, owned by DOC. DOC dx EPI 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24. DOC taught me so much and together we battled and overcame EPI, food sensitivies, environmental allergies but we lost the cancer battle. DOC was dx with hemangiosarcoma 5/2022 and crossed the rainbow bridge July 24, 2022. He is and always will be the love of my life, my soulmate, my heart dog.

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PipersMom
Member
Posts: 164
Country: United States
State: New Jersey
Pet name: Piper
My name: Shawn

Re: Newly Diagnoised

Post by PipersMom » 02 Aug 2021, 14:31

Madelon wrote: 01 Aug 2021, 13:58 Hi! I would use the full dose of SE and see how it goes. I mix mine in a separate bowl with a little water and then put it right on top of the food just before serving it. In the meantime like Pam said, I would look at her lips and muzzle to see if there is any irritation from the enzymes. If not, then I would try giving Omeprazole 30 minutes before feeding - if the food is a wet type food as you've described just get a tiny amount after mixing in the enzymes - put 1 omeprazole pill in it (like a meatball) and give it to Piper 30 minutes before serving her food. Doc gets 1 omeprazole 30 minutes before each meal to help with acid/bile.
Thank you!

I have actually been giving Piper the full amount since it was mentioned. I add extra water just to make sure everything including enzymes are mixed well. It was still happening so then I added extra lentils for a fuller meal but also about 1/8 cup if not less of cooked barley. Since giving the barley there is no more licking or the neck move or anything. I have not even needed pepcid (although I will get the omeprazole next time I need).

So far so good and keeping 🤞🏻 it stays this way. 🙏🏻
Shawn, from NJ. Piper is Chow Chow, German Shepherd, Catahoula Leopard Dog, Bluetick Coonhound, Boxer, Border Collie, and Pit. Born 8/28/19.

EPI Diagnoised
: 4/7/21 (cTLI-1.8, B-12-<150, Folate->24). Started Enzymes 4/8/21. Piper's weight dropped to 45 but was a is a steady 50lbs. Lowest weight 42lbs. As of 4/5/21 B12 was 505. As of 12/14/22 was 830
Daily Meds: PancreVed Powder with each meal, B-12 1000mg every other day, Proin 25 mg BID, Gabapentin 150mg BID, Proviable-Forte Capsule, Priolosec 20mg and Incurin .5mg. If needed: Galiprant, Cerenia, Tylan
Current Food: Homemade food by me with a vet nutritionist recipe that has added vitamins and minerals.

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jilbert57
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Posts: 2088
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: Newly Diagnoised

Post by jilbert57 » 02 Aug 2021, 17:27

Shawn, will you please take a picture of the ingredients and nutrient analysis of the Farmers
Dog beef formula for me? You can post here or send it to jill.epi4dogs@gmail.com.

Thanks so much!

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

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PipersMom
Member
Posts: 164
Country: United States
State: New Jersey
Pet name: Piper
My name: Shawn

Re: Newly Diagnoised

Post by PipersMom » 02 Aug 2021, 18:52

jilbert57 wrote: 02 Aug 2021, 17:27 Shawn, will you please take a picture of the ingredients and nutrient analysis of the Farmers
Dog beef formula for me? You can post here or send it to jill.epi4dogs@gmail.com.

Thanks so much!

Jill

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Shawn, from NJ. Piper is Chow Chow, German Shepherd, Catahoula Leopard Dog, Bluetick Coonhound, Boxer, Border Collie, and Pit. Born 8/28/19.

EPI Diagnoised
: 4/7/21 (cTLI-1.8, B-12-<150, Folate->24). Started Enzymes 4/8/21. Piper's weight dropped to 45 but was a is a steady 50lbs. Lowest weight 42lbs. As of 4/5/21 B12 was 505. As of 12/14/22 was 830
Daily Meds: PancreVed Powder with each meal, B-12 1000mg every other day, Proin 25 mg BID, Gabapentin 150mg BID, Proviable-Forte Capsule, Priolosec 20mg and Incurin .5mg. If needed: Galiprant, Cerenia, Tylan
Current Food: Homemade food by me with a vet nutritionist recipe that has added vitamins and minerals.

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jilbert57
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Posts: 2088
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: Newly Diagnoised

Post by jilbert57 » 02 Aug 2021, 20:41

Thanks Shawn. If the gut won't cooperate you might look at the lentils. Not sure how much impact they have.

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

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PipersMom
Member
Posts: 164
Country: United States
State: New Jersey
Pet name: Piper
My name: Shawn

Re: Newly Diagnoised

Post by PipersMom » 02 Aug 2021, 23:22

Thanks. I will ask company if there are other ingredients they can use if it continues. So far she is doing better in the past week since adding a little barley. 😊
Shawn, from NJ. Piper is Chow Chow, German Shepherd, Catahoula Leopard Dog, Bluetick Coonhound, Boxer, Border Collie, and Pit. Born 8/28/19.

EPI Diagnoised
: 4/7/21 (cTLI-1.8, B-12-<150, Folate->24). Started Enzymes 4/8/21. Piper's weight dropped to 45 but was a is a steady 50lbs. Lowest weight 42lbs. As of 4/5/21 B12 was 505. As of 12/14/22 was 830
Daily Meds: PancreVed Powder with each meal, B-12 1000mg every other day, Proin 25 mg BID, Gabapentin 150mg BID, Proviable-Forte Capsule, Priolosec 20mg and Incurin .5mg. If needed: Galiprant, Cerenia, Tylan
Current Food: Homemade food by me with a vet nutritionist recipe that has added vitamins and minerals.

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PipersMom
Member
Posts: 164
Country: United States
State: New Jersey
Pet name: Piper
My name: Shawn

Re: Newly Diagnoised

Post by PipersMom » 03 Aug 2021, 14:16

:twisted: why on Earth did I leave my husband the responsibility to feed Piper lunch. I left explicit instructions on how much and what to do. Everything was labeled. He went ahead and fed her a whole day's worth of food for her meal. He did put one teaspoons of enzymes in it. I hope that is not going to affect anything. One bag of food is two feedings and that's what she gets fed. You think she'll be okay.
Shawn, from NJ. Piper is Chow Chow, German Shepherd, Catahoula Leopard Dog, Bluetick Coonhound, Boxer, Border Collie, and Pit. Born 8/28/19.

EPI Diagnoised
: 4/7/21 (cTLI-1.8, B-12-<150, Folate->24). Started Enzymes 4/8/21. Piper's weight dropped to 45 but was a is a steady 50lbs. Lowest weight 42lbs. As of 4/5/21 B12 was 505. As of 12/14/22 was 830
Daily Meds: PancreVed Powder with each meal, B-12 1000mg every other day, Proin 25 mg BID, Gabapentin 150mg BID, Proviable-Forte Capsule, Priolosec 20mg and Incurin .5mg. If needed: Galiprant, Cerenia, Tylan
Current Food: Homemade food by me with a vet nutritionist recipe that has added vitamins and minerals.

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PipersMom
Member
Posts: 164
Country: United States
State: New Jersey
Pet name: Piper
My name: Shawn

Re: Newly Diagnoised

Post by PipersMom » 04 Aug 2021, 21:26

Catastrophe averted. Piper is doing ok with the exception of having three huge firm stools a day for two days now. She had a slight belly ache but it's ok. Hopefully tomorrow she will resume her twice a day regimen and get it all out of her system.

Husband felt/feels horrible and now knows exactly how much she eats. He knows how careful he must be.
Shawn, from NJ. Piper is Chow Chow, German Shepherd, Catahoula Leopard Dog, Bluetick Coonhound, Boxer, Border Collie, and Pit. Born 8/28/19.

EPI Diagnoised
: 4/7/21 (cTLI-1.8, B-12-<150, Folate->24). Started Enzymes 4/8/21. Piper's weight dropped to 45 but was a is a steady 50lbs. Lowest weight 42lbs. As of 4/5/21 B12 was 505. As of 12/14/22 was 830
Daily Meds: PancreVed Powder with each meal, B-12 1000mg every other day, Proin 25 mg BID, Gabapentin 150mg BID, Proviable-Forte Capsule, Priolosec 20mg and Incurin .5mg. If needed: Galiprant, Cerenia, Tylan
Current Food: Homemade food by me with a vet nutritionist recipe that has added vitamins and minerals.

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