Newly Diagnoised

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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Tuckaboo Pam
Member
Posts: 738
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: Newly Diagnoised

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 17 May 2021, 19:26

Shawn, I am addressing the rawhide, which is a big no-no in most vets' opinion. It can bind up in your dog's system, ending with the need for surgery, so definitely not worth it!

OMGoodness, Tucker does the same thing with chew toys. I sometimes buy deer antlers, but I have heard of some dogs breaking their teeth on them. I occasionally ask the butcher to sell me a leg bone 4 inches or longer, and those work fine. Tucker hasn't reacted to eating the marrow, but I imagine it might cause a problem for some EPI dogs.

Yeah, those Kong toys you put peanut butter in are a joke around here. No gentle licking, he eats the whole thing. ---Pam
Tucker is a shepherd/lab mix; he has tested positive on the ScheBo test for EPI, as well as the fasting TLI. Results--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Currently taking Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlab B12 one capsule per day, slippery elm 1/8 teaspoon twice/day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon twice/day (to hold SID at bay). Sport Dog Elite, herding dogs 3 1/2 cups/day. No more poop eating, has gone from 60 to 80 pounds, and he is a happy member of the family, though a bit of a stinker, if you ask the other dogs. Tucker is my boyfriend, and my husband is OK with that.

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PipersMom
Member
Posts: 61
Country: United States
State: New Jersey
Pet name: Piper
My name: Shawn

Re: Newly Diagnoised

Post by PipersMom » 18 May 2021, 07:12

Thanks. I have a ton of PB2 in the house (as well as Low Sodium/Low Sugar PB). I will look into the lick mat.

I gave Piper the 6th B-12 yesterday and did much better :) . As of now I will give monthly, so when I speak to the vet again I will ask for the 25 needle.
I am Shawn, from NJ. Piper is ChowChow, German Shepherd, Catahoula Leopard Dog, Bluetick Coonhound, Border Collie, and a little Pit. Born 8/28/19.

EPI Diagnoised
: 4/7/21 (cTLI-1.8, B-12-<150, Folate->24). Started Enzymes 4/8/21. 6 Weekly B-12 inj. given. Piper's weight is a steady 50 to 50.8lbs. Lowest weight 42lbs. As of 4/5/21 B12 was 505.
Daily Medications: PancreVed Powder, B-12 1000mg tabs, Proin, Gabapentin, Proviable-Forte Capsule. If needed: Pepcid, zofran, Carprofen
Current Food: The Farmers Dog Beef Recipe (Old food Royal Canin HP)

Tuckaboo Pam
Member
Posts: 738
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: Newly Diagnoised

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 18 May 2021, 13:49

Just make sure your peanut butter doesn't have artificial sweeteners!!!! Some of them can be FATAL to dogs!
Tucker is a shepherd/lab mix; he has tested positive on the ScheBo test for EPI, as well as the fasting TLI. Results--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Currently taking Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlab B12 one capsule per day, slippery elm 1/8 teaspoon twice/day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon twice/day (to hold SID at bay). Sport Dog Elite, herding dogs 3 1/2 cups/day. No more poop eating, has gone from 60 to 80 pounds, and he is a happy member of the family, though a bit of a stinker, if you ask the other dogs. Tucker is my boyfriend, and my husband is OK with that.

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Madelon
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Posts: 1297
Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
State: Tennessee
Pet name: Doc

Re: Newly Diagnoised

Post by Madelon » 19 May 2021, 21:34

I'm a big no on the rawhide personally. I had a Boston Terrier who I used to give raw hides to and I had to pull a huge soggy piece that had been lodged in his throat - scared me to death - that was over 20yrs ago - every vet I've ever had has said no to rawhide.
MADELON and Doc. DX EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
Test Results: (1st) 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; (2nd) 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; (3rd) 10/2015 TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4. Prior to DX: May 2014 (2mos) - DX coccidia/bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Dx SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May 2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop. Regimen: 4 cups Sport Dog Food Elite Herding - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 1/2tsp Slippery Elm 2xday; Multivitamin; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Salmon Oil

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PipersMom
Member
Posts: 61
Country: United States
State: New Jersey
Pet name: Piper
My name: Shawn

Re: Newly Diagnoised

Post by PipersMom » 28 May 2021, 13:59

I had rawhide and Piper loved it. We had stopped giving it to her prior to knowing she had EPI. I have since given it away.

I do have Elk Antler. What are your thoughts on those? The only toys we can give her are all nylon only and they must be for aggressive or extreme chewers. Anything else she will rip to shred or eat up fast. Even the black Kongs she destroys.

As for her treats. Since the ones we have are no longer made, I looked at the Fruitables. They look good so I will be ordering some of them.

As far as how she is doing, she is doing really well. Her stool is still nice and firm.

Her food, she is getting The Farmers Dog Beef recipe. There are no grains and her doctor wants some in her diet so I add two tables spoons if not more of the Minute Brown Rice and Quinoa or just the Brown Rice to it. She loves this food and will sit at the kitchen entry and wait for it to incubate so she can devour it. I also have Cheerios I use as a higher value treat since she LOVES them.


Piper had her last B12 injection on May 17, 2021. The vet said at this point we will watch her stool and see ow she does. That will let us know (along with BW in a month or so) how if she will need to continue that.


Her anal sacs need to be expressed and my vet has no openings so we are going on Tuesday. When they are full they aggravate her nerve and she bites at her tail. I will just have to keep her back side clean.
I am Shawn, from NJ. Piper is ChowChow, German Shepherd, Catahoula Leopard Dog, Bluetick Coonhound, Border Collie, and a little Pit. Born 8/28/19.

EPI Diagnoised
: 4/7/21 (cTLI-1.8, B-12-<150, Folate->24). Started Enzymes 4/8/21. 6 Weekly B-12 inj. given. Piper's weight is a steady 50 to 50.8lbs. Lowest weight 42lbs. As of 4/5/21 B12 was 505.
Daily Medications: PancreVed Powder, B-12 1000mg tabs, Proin, Gabapentin, Proviable-Forte Capsule. If needed: Pepcid, zofran, Carprofen
Current Food: The Farmers Dog Beef Recipe (Old food Royal Canin HP)

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Olesia711
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Posts: 1987
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Newly Diagnoised

Post by Olesia711 » 28 May 2021, 17:39

Hi Shawn,

For the fiber, just stick to the brown rice (a few tablespoons of real rice) and skip the Quinoa. Fiber actually helps keep SID in good control and if Piper needs the anal sac expressed frequently, fiber also helps with that... the only problem is that fiber can mess with the efficacy of the digestive enzymes from anywhere between 0% to 50%... so when adding fiber to an EPi dog's diet... you have to proceed slowly with just a little to make sure it is well tolerated... and then add accordingly if you can :)

The other thing you can add (as fiber) is canned pumpkin.... a tsp (or two) with meals..... pumpkin is usually very well tolerated by our EPI dogs.

Oh, and elk antlers??!!! oh yeah... dogs love 'em and they are usually well tolerated.
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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PipersMom
Member
Posts: 61
Country: United States
State: New Jersey
Pet name: Piper
My name: Shawn

Re: Newly Diagnoised

Post by PipersMom » 29 May 2021, 10:24

I have plain brown rice coming in my next food delivery. In the meantime I will try pumpkin but Piper is not fond of that. Miss picky pup. Piper has had food with fiber since she is a pup. While her stool has been stable since going on the pancreved powder the 2 tablespoons of brown rice and quinoa has not had any ill affects (thank goodness). I am only adding some for the fiber my vet wants. That and the Cheerios.

Elk Antlers, we need something other then the nylon to keep her occupied, especially on rainy days when she can not go out and burn energy. I am thinking of a lick mat however I am wondering if I get one, can I still spread some peanut butter on it and give it to her without worrying about having the enzymes on it? Do you think spreading a thin layer over will do anything? What else can be spread on it? If I do I think I will freeze it to make it last longer as well. Again trying to think of ways to keep her busy. A snuffle mat is out because that would take too many treats.

Lastly, thoughts on giving her some green beans that have been cooked and cooled as a treat?


Thank you all again for answering all my questions.
I am Shawn, from NJ. Piper is ChowChow, German Shepherd, Catahoula Leopard Dog, Bluetick Coonhound, Border Collie, and a little Pit. Born 8/28/19.

EPI Diagnoised
: 4/7/21 (cTLI-1.8, B-12-<150, Folate->24). Started Enzymes 4/8/21. 6 Weekly B-12 inj. given. Piper's weight is a steady 50 to 50.8lbs. Lowest weight 42lbs. As of 4/5/21 B12 was 505.
Daily Medications: PancreVed Powder, B-12 1000mg tabs, Proin, Gabapentin, Proviable-Forte Capsule. If needed: Pepcid, zofran, Carprofen
Current Food: The Farmers Dog Beef Recipe (Old food Royal Canin HP)

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jilbert57
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Posts: 1274
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: Newly Diagnoised

Post by jilbert57 » 29 May 2021, 11:45

Hi Shawn, all foods and treats that are food need to have enzymes included.
However, some folks can get away with say feeding the likimat right after an enzymed meal.
Some can even give a small treat between meals.
What you would need to do is experiment and watch the poop. If you give non enzymed green beans and the poop goes south then note that in your journal.
It's all about the poop and tummy rumblings lol!
Maybe think about incubating a small about of babyfood or canned dog food and feeding as a meatball first then give the treat?

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have one pup. TJ is a 5 year old Jack Russell.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

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Olesia711
Founder
Posts: 1987
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Newly Diagnoised

Post by Olesia711 » 29 May 2021, 11:52

for activity.... sometimes mind games are also another activity to implement.
Maybe try hiding things and asking piper to find them... or train this.... many dogs like doing something like this....
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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PipersMom
Member
Posts: 61
Country: United States
State: New Jersey
Pet name: Piper
My name: Shawn

Re: Newly Diagnoised

Post by PipersMom » 29 May 2021, 12:29

jilbert57 wrote: 29 May 2021, 11:45 Hi Shawn, all foods and treats that are food need to have enzymes included.
However, some folks can get away with say feeding the likimat right after an enzymed meal.
Some can even give a small treat between meals.
What you would need to do is experiment and watch the poop. If you give non enzymed green beans and the poop goes south then note that in your journal.
It's all about the poop and tummy rumblings lol!
Maybe think about incubating a small about of babyfood or canned dog food and feeding as a meatball first then give the treat?

Jill
Thanks. I will hold off on the green beans. But if needed keep in mind the ideas you mentioned,


Olesia711 wrote: 29 May 2021, 11:52 for activity.... sometimes mind games are also another activity to implement.
Maybe try hiding things and asking piper to find them... or train this.... many dogs like doing something like this....
I like that idea of teaching her to "find" a toy or something that she likes.
thank you
I am Shawn, from NJ. Piper is ChowChow, German Shepherd, Catahoula Leopard Dog, Bluetick Coonhound, Border Collie, and a little Pit. Born 8/28/19.

EPI Diagnoised
: 4/7/21 (cTLI-1.8, B-12-<150, Folate->24). Started Enzymes 4/8/21. 6 Weekly B-12 inj. given. Piper's weight is a steady 50 to 50.8lbs. Lowest weight 42lbs. As of 4/5/21 B12 was 505.
Daily Medications: PancreVed Powder, B-12 1000mg tabs, Proin, Gabapentin, Proviable-Forte Capsule. If needed: Pepcid, zofran, Carprofen
Current Food: The Farmers Dog Beef Recipe (Old food Royal Canin HP)

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