Help with Tylan, what to mix it with?

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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Jean
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Posts: 625
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara
My name: Jean

Re: Help with Tylan, what to mix it with?

Post by Jean » 03 Sep 2018, 13:44

no, you are terrified

i have been there, trust me

that smell is undigested food, and its putrid

so we draw a line under and start from scratch, and keep a diary

the USA enzymes are a level teaspoon per cup of food

put some water in so the enzymes can stick to the food, and leave for maybe 30 mins

you might want to try the Wonderlabs b12

https://www.wonderlabs.com/itemleft.php?itemnum=K9688

this is the recommended dose of Tylan as it is weight controled

https://epi4dogs.com/antibiotics/

jeanx
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We use Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

Barb
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Posts: 294
Country: United States
State: New Jersey

Re: Help with Tylan, what to mix it with?

Post by Barb » 03 Sep 2018, 14:27

Hi Dana and welcome to you and Belle! We all remember what it was like to try to get everything balanced while worrying about our pups. Hang in there! It will get better.

I may have missed it, but I don't think I saw anything in your posts about B12. Has Belle been on any B12 injections or pills with Intrinsic Factor (from Wonderlabs). We could not stabilize Kolby and get good poos until we got his B12 levels up (many years ago!) Most dogs have low B12 at diagnosis and we like to see their levels at the 600+ range. Did you have Belle's B12 level tested (cobalamin) when she was diagnosed? Let us know and we can make some recommendations. It's a pretty easy fix and fairly inexpensive.

Whoops! I just saw that Jean recommended B12.

Also, another place you can order tylan if you have Belle stay on it is Heartland Veterinary Supply. The number is
1 800 934 9398. They carry Elanco Tylan Soluble and are very nice to work with.

Barb

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dana7123
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Location: Boulder
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State: Colorado

Re: Help with Tylan, what to mix it with?

Post by dana7123 » 04 Sep 2018, 11:24

Good morning everyone! Today we have poo that was more brown than gold/yellow and had form except for the last bit.....that was cow patty and stuck to grass. Both poo's still smell so sour! So even though the poo looked a bit better does the smell mean that the food is still not being digested?

Yesterday I made sure to give her 2 1/2tsp of enzymes for the 2 1/2cups of food. Then I up'd the Tylan to 3/8 tsp twice a day (recommended for her weight) from the 1/3tsp that the vet said to start her with. I am going to stick with that with no changes to make sure we are making progress,

She is not eating breakfast which is something new. She will eat at about noonish but I have to make another bowl because the enzymes won't last that long in the mix of food/enzymes. Should I just feed her later? Is that okay to do and then dinner will be closer to the time she eats what should have been her breakfast.

I cannot tell you how much I appreciate all of you! If I didn't have all of you to turn to I would not know how to take care of my beautiful baby. If I could I would hug all of you so we will send a viral hug!!!

Oh I have forgotten to mention. Belle's TLI results were .... normal range is 5.0-35.0 ug/L and Belles results were..."0.4".....so so scary ! Not even a 1.0 .....

Dana & Belle
My Belle is a rescue. She was 3 mo when I adopted her and at 7 mo we discovered the EPI. Her TLI results were "0.4". We went to 3 Vets who tested her for worms, diarrhea etc., and then the 4th vet knew exactly what was wrong once I described the yellow poo and everything else. What a relief! He put her on Science Diet ID and enzymes right away! I was so glad to find enzymediane because that first bottle of enzymes from the vet cost a fortune!! Belle gets 2 1/2 cups of food with 2 1/2 tsp of enzymes twice a day. She has done well (at 103 lbs) but she just started a bout of SIBO. She just started Tylan today. Fingers crossed!

Barb
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Posts: 294
Country: United States
State: New Jersey

Re: Help with Tylan, what to mix it with?

Post by Barb » 04 Sep 2018, 15:56

Hi Dana,

It can take some time for the SID/SIBO treatment to work. That is why we recommend the the antibiotics be given over a long period of time. Some dogs respond faster than others. If the color is moving toward brown, that is a good sign. But the improvement might be somewhat inconsistent at first.

Regarding breakfast, my Kolby did something like Belle is doing when he was first diagnosed. He did not want to eat in the morning when he first got up. I did urge him to eat some so he wouldn't get dry heaves, but like you, I did not want to waste the enzymed food that would sit out. So if your schedule permits, feed her later and see how that works. Once she gets used to the enzymed food, you will probably (hopefully) be able to move the feedings gradually to where they were.......or she will like the new schedule and will want to keep it there. Kolby eventually went back to eating breakfast, but whenever he has an upset or a setback, it's always the breakfast meal that is affected.

Almost formed poos.......yay! Good work! You are doing great.

Barb

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dana7123
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Location: Boulder
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State: Colorado

Re: Help with Tylan, what to mix it with?

Post by dana7123 » 04 Sep 2018, 16:23

Thanks so much Barb. I just stopped by the Vet to pick up some more Tylan and as we were discussing Belle I actually started to tear up. This is a commitment to this beautiful animal that can pull at your heart so many times!

Brownish poo...yay! Only went poo once this morning..yay!

I will try the breakfast later in the morning. I think I am going to have to do that like you said. Hopefully she will go back to early morning like your Kloby did!

Thanks for the support!!!

Dana & Belle
My Belle is a rescue. She was 3 mo when I adopted her and at 7 mo we discovered the EPI. Her TLI results were "0.4". We went to 3 Vets who tested her for worms, diarrhea etc., and then the 4th vet knew exactly what was wrong once I described the yellow poo and everything else. What a relief! He put her on Science Diet ID and enzymes right away! I was so glad to find enzymediane because that first bottle of enzymes from the vet cost a fortune!! Belle gets 2 1/2 cups of food with 2 1/2 tsp of enzymes twice a day. She has done well (at 103 lbs) but she just started a bout of SIBO. She just started Tylan today. Fingers crossed!

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Olesia711
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Location: North Carolina
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Pet name: Izzy

Re: Help with Tylan, what to mix it with?

Post by Olesia711 » 04 Sep 2018, 17:12

Hi Dana,

Sounds like good news... poo color improving... and frequency diminishing.... very good :)
Glad you increased both the Tylan and the enzymes to the proper doses :)

Give things time.... you may have a not so great poo here and there... BUT.... if the poos "over-all" are improving .... then you are heading in the right direction.

Barb gave you some really good suggestions regarding the not wanting to eat breakfast... (thank Barb- -very helpful!)

Please continue to keep us posted!
Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Doing great 12+ years later! Once stable at 3+ months, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each cup of food, but as she aged- -had to go back 1 tsp enzymes per cup of food. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil / fish oil daily .... until she developed Diabetes and she now cannot tolerate higher fat foods. Currently feed an 80% home-made diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, 1/3 of a raw egg, fat free cottage cheese, fish oil+vitamins and bone meal with 20% Annamaet Lean & Grain Free kibble. This combo has regulated her Diabetes (takes Vetsulin) and EPI and is very well managed. In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. This is when we discovered that she also developed Diabetes & Low Thyroid. Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the generosity of folks on Epi4dogs! Izzy continues to wake up every day full of joy. I am not a vet. All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal experiences, observations, information gleaned from EPI researchers & pet parents alike, and EPI research. Please share with your vet everything we suggest.

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dana7123
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Posts: 30
Location: Boulder
Country: United States
State: Colorado

Re: Help with Tylan, what to mix it with?

Post by dana7123 » 05 Sep 2018, 12:55

Good news!!!!!!! We had perfect poo this morning and no smell!!!!!!

Fingers crossed now that it will stay the same. She will stay on Tylan for 1 week and if the poo stays perfect, then we will try to give her less and less Tylan to see if she will do okay without it.

3/8 tsp Tylan and 2 1/2 tsp enzymes with 2 1/2 cups food 2x a day!

So so happy this morning! I feel like celebrating! Thank you for being there for us. Without all of you I would still be giving her the 1/3 tsp of Tylan and 2 tsp enzymes. Thank you!!!

Dana & Belle
My Belle is a rescue. She was 3 mo when I adopted her and at 7 mo we discovered the EPI. Her TLI results were "0.4". We went to 3 Vets who tested her for worms, diarrhea etc., and then the 4th vet knew exactly what was wrong once I described the yellow poo and everything else. What a relief! He put her on Science Diet ID and enzymes right away! I was so glad to find enzymediane because that first bottle of enzymes from the vet cost a fortune!! Belle gets 2 1/2 cups of food with 2 1/2 tsp of enzymes twice a day. She has done well (at 103 lbs) but she just started a bout of SIBO. She just started Tylan today. Fingers crossed!

Barb
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Posts: 294
Country: United States
State: New Jersey

Re: Help with Tylan, what to mix it with?

Post by Barb » 06 Sep 2018, 13:19

Congratulations, Dana! You have reason to celebrate! These pups certainly do steal our hearts.

One thing I will mention is that we usually recommend a longer time at the beginning for administering tylan: 30 - 45 days, initially. But work with your vet on this.

Hugs and belly rubs for Belle!

Barb

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Olesia711
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Posts: 910
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy

Re: Help with Tylan, what to mix it with?

Post by Olesia711 » 06 Sep 2018, 13:50

Hi Dana,

CONGRATULATIONS!!!!! (only EPI people would celebrate poop :lol: )

Regarding the increased dose of Tylan.... please talk to your vet about staying on the Tylan 30-45 days... 45 days being preferable. Cuz even if you have great poops for a few weeks,,,,,, Tylan is a macrolide antibiotic- -it does not kill all the bacterial.... and this is probably why a longer course is needed vs. other antibiotics. If you stop short, you most likely will have to repeat with another course or two of Tylan.... after a week or two of stopping.......
Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Doing great 12+ years later! Once stable at 3+ months, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each cup of food, but as she aged- -had to go back 1 tsp enzymes per cup of food. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil / fish oil daily .... until she developed Diabetes and she now cannot tolerate higher fat foods. Currently feed an 80% home-made diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, 1/3 of a raw egg, fat free cottage cheese, fish oil+vitamins and bone meal with 20% Annamaet Lean & Grain Free kibble. This combo has regulated her Diabetes (takes Vetsulin) and EPI and is very well managed. In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. This is when we discovered that she also developed Diabetes & Low Thyroid. Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the generosity of folks on Epi4dogs! Izzy continues to wake up every day full of joy. I am not a vet. All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal experiences, observations, information gleaned from EPI researchers & pet parents alike, and EPI research. Please share with your vet everything we suggest.

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dana7123
Member
Posts: 30
Location: Boulder
Country: United States
State: Colorado

Re: Help with Tylan, what to mix it with?

Post by dana7123 » 06 Sep 2018, 21:49

Barb and Olesia....first thank you! It does feel like a huge brick is off my shoulders for now. And I laughed so hard at the " only EPI people would celebrate poop!" So true!!!

Question....for the 30 to 45 days to stay on Tylan...during that time should she stay on the full 3/8 tsp for the whole time or do I start to decrease it during that time?

One more question....does the Tylan make their appetite go away a bit? For 3 days now Belle won't eat anything in the morning. Today I made her breakfast at 11 and she didn't eat until 1. Then at dinner at 6 she cleans her bowl! She has always eating everything in the a.m. so this is new.

Poo still good! Yay!!

Dana & Belle
My Belle is a rescue. She was 3 mo when I adopted her and at 7 mo we discovered the EPI. Her TLI results were "0.4". We went to 3 Vets who tested her for worms, diarrhea etc., and then the 4th vet knew exactly what was wrong once I described the yellow poo and everything else. What a relief! He put her on Science Diet ID and enzymes right away! I was so glad to find enzymediane because that first bottle of enzymes from the vet cost a fortune!! Belle gets 2 1/2 cups of food with 2 1/2 tsp of enzymes twice a day. She has done well (at 103 lbs) but she just started a bout of SIBO. She just started Tylan today. Fingers crossed!

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