Help with Tylan, what to mix it with?

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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Olesia711
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Re: Help with Tylan, what to mix it with?

Post by Olesia711 » 06 Sep 2018, 23:17

Hi Dana,

Stay on the 3/8 tsp of enzymes until Bella is stable for a couple of months.... this means delivering normal looking poos about 1 to 3 times daily.... and when she does this consistently for a month or more.... that is when we claim "Stable" (with a lot of hip-hip hooray!!! ) Then at this juncture.... you can try to reduce the amount of enzymes given with meals to the least amount needed while still being effective. The process is to reduce the enzymes by 1/8 of a tsp- -watch the poos for a few days if poos look good, then reduce the enzymes again by another 1/8 tsp- -and again watch the poos for a few days... you keep reducing until you notice the poos are starting to look sloppy again.... and that is when you KNOW you have reduced the enzymes by too much... so go back to the dose that still delivered normal looking poos. "IF" Bella can handle reduced enzymes once she is stable some of these dogs can cut the enzymes in half from what they started.... HOWEVER, not all EPI dogs can handle reduced enzymes... some just have to stay on the initial dose that worked. BUT.... it certainly is worth trying :)

Ahhhh... the not wanting to eat/losing appetite. Usually the first thing we suspect is low B12- -this you just treat with B12 supplementation that we discuss here on B12 tab on the website. The second suspect is SID (Small Intestinal Dysbiosis) which is not as easy as B12 to manage.... as some can get this under control fairly quickly while others struggle with this off and on and sometimes forever.......This is discussed on the SID tab and this section is well worth reading because dealing with SID can be such a pain in the butt.... and lots of "try this 1st, then try that" :( First we suggest adding prebiotics, then we suggest trying prebiotics with probiotics... if these don't make a dent in SID symptoms, then we suggest Tylan antibiotic for 45 days ( best) if SID keeps returning we then suggest trying a different food. If Tylan makes absolutely no difference at all after about 10 days, then we suggest talking to your vet about swapping out Tylan and trying Metronidazole just in case your EPi dog is one of those rare cases where they don't respond to Tylan like most of the others but does respond to Metro. If you see no improvement at all with the Tylan or the Metro... and your dogs has what looks like SID symptoms but nothing is helping... then we suggest you have your vet check for kidney issues......... like i said... effectively managing SID is a process ....................

I know this is a lot of info.... but with SID... there really is not an easy answer.. it all depends on the individual dog and that makes it sound convoluted........
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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dana7123
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Re: Help with Tylan, what to mix it with?

Post by dana7123 » 07 Sep 2018, 16:53

Hi Olesia.....Stay on the 3/8 tsp of enzymes until Bella is stable for a couple of months.....Did you mean stay on the Tylan??.... this means delivering normal looking poos about 1 to 3 times daily....

Then at this juncture.... you can try to reduce the amount of enzymes....do you mean Tylan?.....given with meals to the least amount needed while still being effective. The process is to reduce the enzymes ...Tylan? by 1/8 of a tsp- -watch the poos for a few days if poos look good, then reduce the enzymes...Tylan? again by another 1/8 tsp- -and again watch the poos for a few days... you keep reducing until you notice the poos are starting to look sloppy again.... and that is when you KNOW you have reduced the enzymes....Tylan? by too much... so go back to the dose that still delivered normal looking poos. "IF" Bella can handle reduced enzymes once she is stable some of these dogs can cut the enzymes in half from what they started.... HOWEVER, not all EPI dogs can handle reduced enzymes... some just have to stay on the initial dose that worked. BUT.... it certainly is worth trying :)....very confused about talking about reducing the enzymes??? I wasn't considering reducing the enzymes.

She is eating, she is just not eating in the morning like she usually did...she eats about 11 now and I was making 2 different bowls of food and wasting one, but I have stopped making her food early in the morning and now just make it at 11...sometimes she eats it right away, sometimes she takes her time, but she does finish it....dinner she eats that right up no problem........
Ahhhh... the not wanting to eat/losing appetite. Usually the first thing we suspect is low B12- -this you just treat with B12 supplementation that we discuss here on B12 tab on the website. The second suspect is SID (Small Intestinal Dysbiosis) which is not as easy as B12 to manage.... as some can get this under control fairly quickly while others struggle with this off and on and sometimes forever.......This is discussed on the SID tab and this section is well worth reading because dealing with SID can be such a pain in the butt.... and lots of "try this 1st, then try that" :( First we suggest adding prebiotics, then we suggest trying prebiotics with probiotics... if these don't make a dent in SID symptoms, then we suggest Tylan antibiotic for 45 days ( best) if SID keeps returning we then suggest trying a different food. If Tylan makes absolutely no difference at all after about 10 days, then we suggest talking to your vet about swapping out Tylan and trying Metronidazole just in case your EPi dog is one of those rare cases where they don't respond to Tylan like most of the others but does respond to Metro. If you see no improvement at all with the Tylan or the Metro... and your dogs has what looks like SID symptoms but nothing is helping... then we suggest you have your vet check for kidney issues......... like i said... effectively managing SID is a process ....................
My Belle is a rescue. She was 3 mo when I adopted her and at 7 mo we discovered the EPI. Her TLI results were "0.4". We went to 3 Vets before we found the 4th vet who knew exactly what was wrong. What a relief! He put her on B12 and enzymes right away! I was so glad to find enzymediane! Belle gets 2 1/2 cups of food with 1 tsp of 8x enzymes twice a day. She is now (at 116 lbs) but now has SIDS. Started putting Slippery Elm in her breakfast (she would regurgitate breakfast & orange/yellow in poo) & she is doing great now!

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Madelon
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Re: Help with Tylan, what to mix it with?

Post by Madelon » 07 Sep 2018, 20:33

Yes I think Olesia meant to say reducing Tylan. We suggest slowly weaning off of Tylan as we have seen too many who stop Tylan cold turkey having a set back and having to start another 45 day course of Tylan.
Madelon, owned by DOC. DOC dx EPI 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24. DOC taught me so much and together we battled and overcame EPI, food sensitivies, environmental allergies but we lost the cancer battle. DOC was dx with hemangiosarcoma 5/2022 and crossed the rainbow bridge July 24, 2022. He is and always will be the love of my life, my soulmate, my heart dog.

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Olesia711
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Re: Help with Tylan, what to mix it with?

Post by Olesia711 » 08 Sep 2018, 11:19

WELL... i certainly made a mess with my post. SO SORRY.

When i was responding, for some reason....I was thinking that you increased the ENYZMES.... and that you were seeing improvement.... so........... ALL that i typed below in reference to ENZYMES.... is actually info for enzymes..... and it does not apply to your current question about 3/8 tsp of TYLAN.

(and yes...once a dog is stable you should try to reduce the amount of enzymes to the lowest possible dose which is what i explained below- -but you are not there yet).

SOOOOOOOOOOOOooooo with regards to the Tylan......stay on the 3/8 tsp for a total (from when you started) for 45 days/twice daily..... AND, as Madelon alluded to, once you come to the end of the 45 days..... what appears to work better for many, but not all is instead of stopping the Tylan completely at the end of 45 days.... instead... slowly reduce the amount over the next few weeks. For example.... once the 45 days of 3/8tsp of Tylan/twice daily is completely, then give , give half of 3/8 tsp Tylan twice daily for a week. Then the next week just give half dose of 3/8tsp Tylan once a day, then give half dose of 3/8tsp Tylan every other day for final week and then stop completely.

Again... so sorry that i gave you instructions for Enzymes and not Tylan in my last post....................

Image

dana7123 wrote: 07 Sep 2018, 16:53 Hi Olesia.....Stay on the 3/8 tsp of enzymes until Bella is stable for a couple of months.....Did you mean stay on the Tylan??.... this means delivering normal looking poos about 1 to 3 times daily....

Then at this juncture.... you can try to reduce the amount of enzymes....do you mean Tylan?.....given with meals to the least amount needed while still being effective. The process is to reduce the enzymes ...Tylan? by 1/8 of a tsp- -watch the poos for a few days if poos look good, then reduce the enzymes...Tylan? again by another 1/8 tsp- -and again watch the poos for a few days... you keep reducing until you notice the poos are starting to look sloppy again.... and that is when you KNOW you have reduced the enzymes....Tylan? by too much... so go back to the dose that still delivered normal looking poos. "IF" Bella can handle reduced enzymes once she is stable some of these dogs can cut the enzymes in half from what they started.... HOWEVER, not all EPI dogs can handle reduced enzymes... some just have to stay on the initial dose that worked. BUT.... it certainly is worth trying :)....very confused about talking about reducing the enzymes??? I wasn't considering reducing the enzymes.

She is eating, she is just not eating in the morning like she usually did...she eats about 11 now and I was making 2 different bowls of food and wasting one, but I have stopped making her food early in the morning and now just make it at 11...sometimes she eats it right away, sometimes she takes her time, but she does finish it....dinner she eats that right up no problem........
Ahhhh... the not wanting to eat/losing appetite. Usually the first thing we suspect is low B12- -this you just treat with B12 supplementation that we discuss here on B12 tab on the website. The second suspect is SID (Small Intestinal Dysbiosis) which is not as easy as B12 to manage.... as some can get this under control fairly quickly while others struggle with this off and on and sometimes forever.......This is discussed on the SID tab and this section is well worth reading because dealing with SID can be such a pain in the butt.... and lots of "try this 1st, then try that" :( First we suggest adding prebiotics, then we suggest trying prebiotics with probiotics... if these don't make a dent in SID symptoms, then we suggest Tylan antibiotic for 45 days ( best) if SID keeps returning we then suggest trying a different food. If Tylan makes absolutely no difference at all after about 10 days, then we suggest talking to your vet about swapping out Tylan and trying Metronidazole just in case your EPi dog is one of those rare cases where they don't respond to Tylan like most of the others but does respond to Metro. If you see no improvement at all with the Tylan or the Metro... and your dogs has what looks like SID symptoms but nothing is helping... then we suggest you have your vet check for kidney issues......... like i said... effectively managing SID is a process ....................
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Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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dana7123
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Re: Help with Tylan, what to mix it with?

Post by dana7123 » 09 Sep 2018, 16:02

LOL! Olesia no problem...I got a good chuckle out of all of this!

Totally will follow what you recommend! Belle is doing so fantastic! Poo is perfect and no smell (well except it smells like poo!) :lol: ...I am sending the info to our vet as well. He is so interested in all of this. He does know about it (he was also a MD but decided he would rather work with animals ) etc., and has a German Shepherd that he thought at one time might have had EPI...but Belle is his first fur baby with actual full blown EPI. So glad that we found him!

Thank you for all your help! And keeping a diary is such a good idea as well! I would loose track of when I started what or what result she had to what etc.....

Hugs
Belle & Dana
My Belle is a rescue. She was 3 mo when I adopted her and at 7 mo we discovered the EPI. Her TLI results were "0.4". We went to 3 Vets before we found the 4th vet who knew exactly what was wrong. What a relief! He put her on B12 and enzymes right away! I was so glad to find enzymediane! Belle gets 2 1/2 cups of food with 1 tsp of 8x enzymes twice a day. She is now (at 116 lbs) but now has SIDS. Started putting Slippery Elm in her breakfast (she would regurgitate breakfast & orange/yellow in poo) & she is doing great now!

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Olesia711
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Re: Help with Tylan, what to mix it with?

Post by Olesia711 » 09 Sep 2018, 16:16

WOW...your vet sounds like a real keeper!!!

If he is interested in EPI..... please have him check out Dr. Barko's presentation on EPI for vets at the seminar we hosted last fall ... Dr. Barkos' slide presentation is great.
https://epi4dogs.com/epi-seminar/
Dr. David E. Williams also did a presentation (he developed the TLI test :)) .... it was historical & technical but we who hosted the event were new at taping and we messed up taping his portion...., so his presentation is very difficult to understand .

Also... please let your vet know that we should be ready to go public sometime this fall/winter with the results from the EPI Metabolomic & Microbiome Research results that we just completed this summer..... it ought to yield some interesting results about EPI.... or at least i hope so! We already did the genetic research with Dr. Leigh Ann Clark... a few alleles showed up ... but something else is going on.... hence why we embarked on the Maya Metabolomic Study :)

My apologies again.... for mixing up my response with enzymes vs. tylan..... i try to check in and respond to folks just before i shut down and go to bed.... i should know better not to answer stuff when i am super tired..................my bad...................
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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Abby&Milo
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Re: Help with Tylan, what to mix it with?

Post by Abby&Milo » 11 Sep 2018, 11:19

dana7123 wrote: 29 Aug 2018, 10:01 How do you get your dog to take it? I put it in her food, mixed with something else, and she won't eat her food! It does smell!
Hi, hope giving the Tylan is going ok. Milo is back on it and he seems to take it the best when I put the powder in a pill pocket or if I create my own pill pocket with raw hamburger (cheaper option). Hes on 1/8 tsp. Sometimes I have to make sure he doesn't open it up and cause the powder to fall out but he usually mouths it a couple times and seems to swallow it whole. Just another idea! Raw hamburger doesn't seem to affect him poorly in any way either. I've also gotten a can of green tripe and mixed the powder in a small amount of the tripe and given it to him in a separate bowl and he has eaten it that way too.

He doesn't really like his B12 pill, he eventually eats it but I noticed he tries to eat around it or spit it out sometimes when I put it in his bowl, so I never tried putting the powder in a gel cap.

good luck!
Abby&Milo
Milo is a 3.5yr old Standard Poodle. Diagnosed with EPI on 9/01/2017 at 1.5 yrs old. TLI <1
Food: TOTW Pacific Stream. 1 tsp of 6x Enzyme Diane per cup of food. Cooked ground beef, and sometimes a bit of sardines added to food as a small topper. One B12 pill with intrinsic factor added to food daily. One pump of salmon oil twice daily with each meal. 1/2 tsp of Slippery Elm morning and night with each meal. 10mg of Pepcid or Omeprazole once a day for acid reflux. Milo eats about 3+ cups of food per day with added toppings (free feeding). Current weight 41lbs, lowest weight was ~32lbs, and his weight before EPI signs was 38lbs. Very stable weight now. Go Milo! <3

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Madelon
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Re: Help with Tylan, what to mix it with?

Post by Madelon » 11 Sep 2018, 21:58

Abby & Milo - have you tried putting the pill in a dollop of cream cheese? It seems to work for even the pickiest of pill eaters.
Madelon, owned by DOC. DOC dx EPI 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24. DOC taught me so much and together we battled and overcame EPI, food sensitivies, environmental allergies but we lost the cancer battle. DOC was dx with hemangiosarcoma 5/2022 and crossed the rainbow bridge July 24, 2022. He is and always will be the love of my life, my soulmate, my heart dog.

Paige's Guardian
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Re: Help with Tylan, what to mix it with?

Post by Paige's Guardian » 11 Sep 2018, 22:13

I just bought Tylan online at Allivet. They seem to have some of the best prices.

I am lucky that my Dane eats her meal with the Tylan powder 3/8 tsp which is a lot BUT she gets The Honest Kitchen/Grandma Lucy's freeze dried mixed with water so, I think that probably helps. Have you tried a small amount of canned dog food or try a little of the freeze dried foods (THK or Grandma Lucy's, etc.) Capsules are probably your best bet.

Conny
Paige's Guardian (Conny)

Paige, 8-year old Great Dane.

Dx: Malabsorption at age 9 months of age. Low Folate. On plant enzymes for 1.5 years. Experienced bloat 2x and Pancreatitis. Switched to Enzyme Diane. TLI tested but never low. Diarrhea when off enzymes.
06/2019--cPL <50 (normal) SID-Tylan 3/8 tsp 2x/day. 1 tsp Pancreatin 6x per meal. Royal Canon Hydrolyzed Protein Dry Food

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dana7123
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Re: Help with Tylan, what to mix it with?

Post by dana7123 » 14 Sep 2018, 17:36

Thanks again everyone! Belle is doing so much better! Poo is looking good, great color and pretty good shape. Some mornings it's a little softer than I would hope but no more cow patties and like I said, the color is great. She is on 3/8 tsp Tylan and her enzymes. The tech at the vet told me to try mixing it with chicken baby food. It really doesn't have anything in it but ground chicken and water. I mix a tiny amount of it with the tylan and Belle just licks the bowl clean! I sometimes wonder if that's why her stool is a little soft because of the baby food? But she gets such a tiny amount of it, but then again these EPI babies can be tricky about what you give them.

Olesia I will tell my vet about the information you sent me. I know he will be interested. He is out of town but will be back in on Monday. Thanks so much!!!
My Belle is a rescue. She was 3 mo when I adopted her and at 7 mo we discovered the EPI. Her TLI results were "0.4". We went to 3 Vets before we found the 4th vet who knew exactly what was wrong. What a relief! He put her on B12 and enzymes right away! I was so glad to find enzymediane! Belle gets 2 1/2 cups of food with 1 tsp of 8x enzymes twice a day. She is now (at 116 lbs) but now has SIDS. Started putting Slippery Elm in her breakfast (she would regurgitate breakfast & orange/yellow in poo) & she is doing great now!

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