new with questions

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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Anthonyb
Member
Posts: 1
Country: United States
State: California
Pet name: Ginger
My name: Anthony

new with questions

Post by Anthonyb » 10 May 2021, 14:46

Hello All,
Thank you so much to all of the organizers and contributors to this forum. :D
My standard poodle age 2.5 started having issues 6 months back, she was a perfectly healthy happy puppy until one weekend. My family and I went away for a weekend and left the dogs home with a house sitter and she apparently did not watch them too well and they got into things food and ear plugs (found those in the poop). So we moved her to a rice diet and this started to clear her up, then she got into a bag of chocolates the next weekend (valentines day) and the loose stool issues continued for another week. By week 3 of loose stools we went to the vet and they did x-rays and ultrasounds and every looked clear except the diarrhea she sprayed all over them while being examined. They prescribed her metro and a bland diet. weeks latter and still not formed poop and now rib bones showing she got so weak she could not stand we took her to the emergency vet (they have a gastro doctor there) they performed blood work and confirmed she was EPI and has SID. They sent us home with 2 more weeks of metro and pancreplus powder 1/2 tsp per meal. Within a few days her poop went from score 6 to score 4. Based on what we have read it said to try to reduce the amount of enzymes and she is now on 1/4 tsp with each meal, eats 150% of normal receives monthly b12 shots and has a poop score of 3.
So now we have been stable for 3 months with the above but she was not gained any weight. So again based on the recommendations I have read we started her on tylan last week and her poop has changed to a score 2 and she has gained 1 lb. She eats 1 can of wet and 1/2cup of dry 3 times a day with 1/4 tsp of enzyme and 1/4 tsp of tylan in the am/pm feeding.
Sorry so much but this has all been toooo much to handle. Am i doing the right thing? will she ever return to the same energy level, she looks so depressed, will the smell ever go away?

Tuckaboo Pam
Member
Posts: 1345
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: new with questions

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 10 May 2021, 14:57

We are so glad you are here!!!!! PLEASE post things like this---

What kind of enzymes are you using? How are you preparing her food?

Test scores. If the vet didn't provide them, please ask them to be emailed to you.

What you said about the chocolate is interesting to me because Tucker ate 13 cupcakes at a Christmas party, right before his diarrhea started. Seems like he was on the verge & that pushed him over the EPI cliff.

Glad you are on Tylan; Metro is a no-no, but some vets don't seem to know it.

Look into Enzyme Diane (many of us use her product). Her enzymes are much cheaper, they are easy to administer, and she runs an awesome company. Gotta go, but look back soon for more detailed information from a staff member. You're gonna be OK! We've all been there.

Take care ---Pam & Tucker
Tucker was a shepherd/lab mix--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Took Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlabs B12 one capsule per day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon/ morning (to hold SID at bay). Taste of the Wild High Prairie, 1 1/2 cups/day, with a total of 4 cups of Fresh Pet. Stopped eating everything in sight, and went from 60 to 85 pounds! Tucker was my boyfriend, and my husband was OK with that. Tucker succumbed to hemangiosarcoma, but we cherished every day we had with that wonderful, beautiful boy. I will always, always miss my sweet big boy.

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Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 3857
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: new with questions

Post by Olesia711 » 10 May 2021, 16:08

Hi and so sorry you are struggling with this.... but very appreciative for the details and of course if you can answer Pams questions also, that would be great.

Awesome that you are down to 1/4 tsp of enzymes per her meals consisting of:
"wet and 1/2cup of dry 3 times a day with 1/4 tsp of enzyme and 1/4 tsp of tylan in the am/pm feeding." and it does sound like her poos are perfect now if they are a #2..... but i am wondering if you increased the enzymes by 1/8 teaspoon more per feeding if that might help with the weight gain. Might be worth trying.
Also, Do let us know what enzymes (brand name ) you are using

IN the meantime, you are doing the right thing by feeding 150% of what is required,

And that she is getting B12 shots
...... BUT .... and this could be the underlying problem...... she may need B12 much more frequently than this as she might not be holding her B12 level and that could also explain the slow weight gain. In addition to the fact that she might need B12 more frequently, some of our dogs simply do not do as well as expected on the shots... some actually do better on the Wonderlabs "Pet Factor B12" pills.... and then there is the rare case where they sometimes need both....BUt that is the exception.

Did you have your dog B12 tested prior to the vet switching it to monthly shots? and if so, what was the B12 level and how long ago was that?

looking forward to hearing back from you to see if we can figure this out.

Oh.... and just to let you know..... some dogs simply take a LONGGGGggggg time to put back weight... while others gain it back rapidly. We have had dogs gain back all their weight in 3 months and other have taken up to 2 years................. BUt let see if we can figure this out and if it can be helped via B12 or enzymes first.
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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Montgomery
Member
Posts: 418
Country: Canada
Pet name: Montgomery (I'm a CAT!)
My name: V

Re: new with questions

Post by Montgomery » 10 May 2021, 17:11

Take her back and have her weighed every week or two. She may be gaining without you realizing it.
Poor pup! I'm glad she's on the mend!
Montgomery was born 20 March 2012. He eats extra lean ground chicken, lean ground pork and lean ground beef completed with Alnutrin and freeze-dried chicken liver, with hard-cooked egg. He gets two size zero capsules of Enzyme Diane's enzymes at each of his six meals, and a size four capsule of Tylan three times a day. He's a fierce little Spitfire with a roaring Merlin engine.

Barb
Staff
Posts: 918
Country: United States
State: New Jersey

Re: new with questions

Post by Barb » 11 May 2021, 18:36

A warm welcome to you and Ginger. I am so glad you finally found the problem. Sometimes diagnosing is the hardest part. We will look forward to your answers to Pam's questions. Meanwhile, I heartily agree that Enzyme Diane will save you lots of money for a very good product. We used her enzymes for Kolby for almost 11 years, until he passed with a very aggressive form of cancer. You can visit her website and she posts her phone number, so you can call her and ask any questions you have.

One other thing that helped us enormously was keeping a log/journal. It helps you to see what works and what doesn't and it keeps you from feeling overwhelmed. Record everything you give Ginger....food, enzymes, B12, antibiotics etc. and the amounts and the resulting poos. You can download a blank form here at our website or use a notebook. We know how overwhelming it feels at the beginning of treatment, but it will get better once you start getting everything balanced. As Olesia noted, it sometimes takes some dogs a long time to gain their weight back. Kolby was a very slow gainer, but he got there eventually. Definitely check on the B12. Kolby only started gaining when we got his B12 levels up.

Hang in there. Ask any questions you have.

Barb

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Jean
Forum Director
Posts: 1707
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: new with questions

Post by Jean » 12 May 2021, 03:29

Good morning from the UK

Do I remember the projectile pooing, Kara had no control whatever at the start, up the walls up the stairs, and everywhere else

couple of things here

what weight is she ? Tylan is weight dosed

scroll down

https://epi4dogs.com/antibiotics/

Chocolate is a no no but we have all been there, My Kara stole a whole packet of cheese biscuits, was she bad ? I ended up having to stay with her all day she couldnt stop

Dont get too hung up on weight, it took way over a year before Kara put anything on , and even then it was only a pound or two, she was classed as massively emaciated at 14 months old at 39 pounds, she went up to 90 and stabilised at that for 7 years until we lost her in 2019


the daily diary is a must as is b12

https://www.petmd.com/dog/wellness/evr_ ... py_for_epi

Kara had b12 capsule supplement daily, and an injection every month for life

please ask away
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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Jean
Forum Director
Posts: 1707
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: new with questions

Post by Jean » 13 May 2021, 04:19

Anthony, I am going to email you to let you know you have some posts you might be interested in

Jean

Forum Director
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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