Mouth irritation from enzymes or allergies?

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
Erinj2510
Member
Posts: 5
Country: United States
State: Missouri
Pet name: Arthur

Re: Mouth irritation from enzymes or allergies?

Post by Erinj2510 » 12 Jun 2021, 20:01

Hi. It’s me again. I was wondering if any of you out there has pictures of what enzyme irritation looks like? I’ve done everything you have suggested to counteract the caustic properties of the enzymes and he continues to claw at his muzzle and try to rub it on anything he can. I’m still not sure if it is allergies or enzyme irritation(appointment with allergist is getting closer). He doesn’t always do it right after eating. Also, does anybody have suggestions on what I might put on his muzzle where he has really scratched on it a lot. We finally put a cone on him so he can’t damage his muzzle any further. Thanks for all your help.

Tuckaboo Pam
Member
Posts: 738
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: Mouth irritation from enzymes or allergies?

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 13 Jun 2021, 07:23

Erin---

Tucker has been doing the same thing lately, which kind of makes me wonder if he's getting irritated by something in the yard, and then the enzymes might make it worse. Sometimes he is crying & scratching a couple of hours after his meal.

I don't know if this is sanctified, but I have used aquafor on his snout prior to his meal when it has been bad. Last night he just couldn't seem to get any relief, so I wiped his snout & put aquafor on it then. The scratching stopped. Maybe vaseline would work, too.

My feeling is, the barrier may or may not be ideal to ingest, but it is worth it, to alleviate the misery he's in. I have four other dogs, none of whom does this, so I can't help but assume an enzyme connection. As always, what I share is my opinion, alone.

---Pam
Tucker is a shepherd/lab mix; he has tested positive on the ScheBo test for EPI, as well as the fasting TLI. Results--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Currently taking Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlab B12 one capsule per day, slippery elm 1/8 teaspoon twice/day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon twice/day (to hold SID at bay). Sport Dog Elite, herding dogs 3 1/2 cups/day. No more poop eating, has gone from 60 to 80 pounds, and he is a happy member of the family, though a bit of a stinker, if you ask the other dogs. Tucker is my boyfriend, and my husband is OK with that.

User avatar
Jean
Staff
Posts: 1291
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: Mouth irritation from enzymes or allergies?

Post by Jean » 15 Jun 2021, 03:25

I really feel for you

ok sounds like he has had allergies for a while

My Kai , shepherd , had allergies to grass seeds, we gave him Piriton daily for life

https://ayp.healthcare/piriton-allergy- ... gL4dvD_BwE

you might want to look around for something similar in USA, but make sure with the vet, we had to wash his paws, and his belly when he came home from a walk

maybe feeding him from your hand might help

they are sent to try us

you could also try

https://dogfriendlyscene.co.uk/can-i-us ... on-my-dog/

on his muzzle

we used it constantly on my Karas ears and paws


Jeanx
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

User avatar
Madelon
President
Posts: 1294
Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
State: Tennessee
Pet name: Doc

Re: Mouth irritation from enzymes or allergies?

Post by Madelon » 15 Jun 2021, 05:33

Hi Erin - welcome to our EPI family. You've been given great suggestions already on how to deal with a sore mouth. If it doesn't appear to be an allergy but likely from the enzymes - another trick you can try is grinding the kibble in a blender - I know it's yet another step to take BUT for some of our more sensitive dogs it really works. I have been grinding my boy's kibbles since he was first diagnosed 6yrs ago. I use 5oz warm liquid - mix enzymes until thoroughly dissolved and then I grind 2cups of kibbles in a blender then I mix the kibble into the enzyme liquid and sit for 30 minutes - this makes the food like a pie dough consistency.

Allergies are the worst! My boy is allergic to EVERYTHING - except me LOL LOL. A few suggestions for the paws, which you may already know - try to wipe them/rinse them every time he comes in. You can also use lotrimin between the toes but then occupy him so he doesn't lick it. Also soaking/bathing him in Duoxo Shampoo and lastly if nothing else works talk to your vet about Cytopoint injections or Apoquel. My boy gets Zyrtec twice a day and we started Cytopoint injections a few months ago.

Hang in there!
MADELON and Doc. DX EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
Test Results: (1st) 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; (2nd) 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; (3rd) 10/2015 TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4. Prior to DX: May 2014 (2mos) - DX coccidia/bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Dx SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May 2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop. Regimen: 4 cups Sport Dog Food Elite Herding - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 1/2tsp Slippery Elm 2xday; Multivitamin; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Salmon Oil

Erinj2510
Member
Posts: 5
Country: United States
State: Missouri
Pet name: Arthur

Re: Mouth irritation from enzymes or allergies?

Post by Erinj2510 » 19 Jun 2021, 13:29

Hello all! I have an update. Let me first say, I soooo appreciate all the suggestions and support I have received from this forum. So, I took him to a new vet, who happens to be a specialist with allergies. By the end of the appointment we had a plan on how to deal with his atopic allergies. Now for the part I didn’t expect. After examining Arthur, the vet said he had a hard time believing he had EPI. I couldn’t believe what I was hearing. When his original vet called me with the test results, she didn’t really give me specific details on what his numbers were, just that he needed to start on enzyme therapy. Before I could even leave the parking lot from my appointment, I called his vet and had them email me the test results. To my surprise, his numbers were in the normal range with the exception of his B12 being a little low. There was absolutely nothing to indicate that he had EPI or that he needed enzyme replacement therapy! By the way, the itching and swelling on his muzzle seemed to indeed be caused by the enzymes. So his new vet put him on some new food and within 24 hours, his poop was as normal as normal could be! I couldn’t believe it! Now I’m feeling very grateful that he is doing better, but I’m also feeling angry and confused as to how I should deal with the vet who so misguided me and as a result, put me and my dog through all of this.
With all this being said, I want to thank everyone again for being so welcoming and offering such kindness. I wish everyone well with their journey🙂

User avatar
jilbert57
Staff
Posts: 1274
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: Mouth irritation from enzymes or allergies?

Post by jilbert57 » 19 Jun 2021, 15:24

Wow what a journey!. Not sure what to say about the misdiagnosis :?: Glad your pup is getting better.
Keep in touch.

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have one pup. TJ is a 5 year old Jack Russell.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

Tuckaboo Pam
Member
Posts: 738
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: Mouth irritation from enzymes or allergies?

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 19 Jun 2021, 17:54

I'm happy for you, Erin, but I think I would have to write a letter to your vet, so that he/she knows what has happened. Needs to look at the numbers, and needs to hear all that you and Arthur have gone through! Take care!---Pam
Tucker is a shepherd/lab mix; he has tested positive on the ScheBo test for EPI, as well as the fasting TLI. Results--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Currently taking Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlab B12 one capsule per day, slippery elm 1/8 teaspoon twice/day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon twice/day (to hold SID at bay). Sport Dog Elite, herding dogs 3 1/2 cups/day. No more poop eating, has gone from 60 to 80 pounds, and he is a happy member of the family, though a bit of a stinker, if you ask the other dogs. Tucker is my boyfriend, and my husband is OK with that.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 32 guests