New to the Community

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 3858
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: New to the Community

Post by Olesia711 » 23 Jul 2021, 17:05

All dogs with EPI have SID. The trick is to keep it in good control. If her poos are normal, then her SID is in good control.
CHeck to see if any if the products you are giving her has Folate in it.... cause although we know SID is present due to having EPI ... if you are giving her any supplement, food or even some enzymes that include B12 with Folate, that added Folate will also up the folate levels when tested but should not be a problem.

However all that being said, if you want to give prebiotics... that should help improve her gut flora condition. Just be careful to not give too much because too much prebiotics can encourage farts and loose stools.... prebiotics fall in that category where more is not better :).

Personally i would try a pinch of SLippery ELm powder.... https://epi4dogs.com/slippery-elm/ and see if that improves the poo :)
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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secretlybees
Member
Posts: 16
Country: Canada
Pet name: Katara
My name: Alex

Re: New to the Community

Post by secretlybees » 23 Jul 2021, 19:55

Oh, I saw people saying that before, but I thought it meant dogs with EPI were more prone to it and can frequently have flare ups, not that they literally always have the condition. Thanks for clarifying! None of her food has b12 or folate, so we're good to go there. I'll order some Slippery Elm and if her poops take a downturn, I'll add it in.

Also, I think I'm going to change her kibble once this bag runs. It's not only expensive, but has 4% fibre, is low fat, and isn't grain free. I think I can do better. Time to switch!
Thoughts on Merrick or Taste of the Wild?

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Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 3858
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: New to the Community

Post by Olesia711 » 24 Jul 2021, 08:24

Years ago, when the vets ran the B12 test if the Folate score was in the twenties.... then the vets said that the dog probably has SIBO (they didn't call it SID back then). ANy score less then that, the vet said the dog didn't have SIBO (SID).... boy 'o boy were they wrong! Thanks to the research we now know that ALL dogs with EPI have SID and can treat as necessary. Thankfully they no longer use the Folate score as a guide for SID.

Fast forward to current times, with more detailed research done (specifically by Dr. Jan Suchodolski/TAMU) they discovered that ALL dogs with EPI have SID... it is just that some had it under good control (decent poops) while others did not (loose stools, etc).
At this time, our objective is to keep it in good control (until we "hopefully" someday soon, find out how to get rid of SID).
For now they also discovered that changing/improving the gut flora is a better longer lasting way to get SID under control vs. antibiotics.... however sometimes using the recommended (1)prebiotics (2) prebiotic +probiotics... just isn't enough to get SID under good control and a course of antibiotics (specifically Tylan/Tylosin Tartrate) is needed and then implement the pre or pre+probiotics to further improve the gut flora. If all this doesn't work, then they recommend a fecal transplant.

Regarding food.... many of our dogs appear to respond well to Taste of the Wild/Pacific Stream version.... fiber content is 3%,... or you can try one of the other TOTW foods... we recommend buying a small bag only at first to make sure it does work out for your dog...
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

Tuckaboo Pam
Member
Posts: 1345
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: New to the Community

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 24 Jul 2021, 13:19

Alex, Tucker did well on Taste of the Wild/Pacific Stream, but he does better on Sport Dog Elite Series/Herding Dogs. --- Pam
Tucker was a shepherd/lab mix--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Took Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlabs B12 one capsule per day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon/ morning (to hold SID at bay). Taste of the Wild High Prairie, 1 1/2 cups/day, with a total of 4 cups of Fresh Pet. Stopped eating everything in sight, and went from 60 to 85 pounds! Tucker was my boyfriend, and my husband was OK with that. Tucker succumbed to hemangiosarcoma, but we cherished every day we had with that wonderful, beautiful boy. I will always, always miss my sweet big boy.

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secretlybees
Member
Posts: 16
Country: Canada
Pet name: Katara
My name: Alex

Re: New to the Community

Post by secretlybees » 03 Aug 2021, 11:08

Hey friends, I wanted to give an update. We're doing great over here!
I've been gradually switching to Taste of the Wild, and Katara's doing even better on it! So the grain and extra fibre in the royal canin was probably causing some problems. Glad I switched and definitely will be avoiding grain for her now.

I also learned that she's a little blueberry thief! I took her to a farm where you can pick your own berries and she was stealing them from my basket as I picked!
Monster!

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Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 3858
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: New to the Community

Post by Olesia711 » 03 Aug 2021, 13:15

glad to hear that the TOTW is working out better for her. after you get these EPI dogs on the right medicine protocol, i swear afterwards it's all about finding the right food!

Some EPi dogs can handle a lot of fiber content, but it seems that more often then not, the majority can't. THat is why we always first recommend a low fiber food...

BTW.... Blueberries are great for dogs!
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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Madelon
Staff
Posts: 1317
Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
State: Tennessee
Pet name: Doc

Re: New to the Community

Post by Madelon » 03 Aug 2021, 13:43

Glad to hear how well Katara is doing with the food switch. My boy can't tolerate any grains at all. Stealing the blueberries - so cute - did it turn her poop blue LOL LOL
Madelon, owned by DOC. DOC dx EPI 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24. DOC taught me so much and together we battled and overcame EPI, food sensitivies, environmental allergies but we lost the cancer battle. DOC was dx with hemangiosarcoma 5/2022 and crossed the rainbow bridge July 24, 2022. He is and always will be the love of my life, my soulmate, my heart dog.

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