Newly diagnosed dog in distress

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
Lucys_Dad
Member
Posts: 10
Country: United States
State: California
Pet name: Lucy
My name: Brian

Re: Newly diagnosed dog in distress

Post by Lucys_Dad » 24 Jul 2021, 20:55

Lucy is back from hospital. She had a full battery of blood tests and an ultrasound, but not any real answer for what's causing her condition.

The good news is that the ultrasound was normal, they did not find any masses/tumors, blockages, or any inflammation in her pancreas. They said her pancreas looked small, but that was the only abnormal finding.

The blood work was also all normal and did not suggest anything wrong with her.

The vet said she thought it was gastroenteritis. She gave Lucy a pain injection and some IV fluids, and prescribed gabapentin (50mg 1-2 every 8-12 hours) and Cisapride (5mg; one tab 30 min. before meals).

While I know the vet is trying to do the best she can, I feel like this is just grasping at straws. I worry about adding new symptoms through the medication (both can have GI side effects). But I also don't want to give her medication that might help her. So we decided to give her the medicine and see how it goes.

So far, she is the same as when we brought her in (which is not good). She still yelps when we touch her belly or try to move her or pick her up. She is still very disoriented and confused and very lethargic.

It's very sad to watch her in this condition with no idea what's really causing it or how to make her feel better. The vet didn't have any other suggestions for diagnostics or treatment. She only said that if Lucy doesn't improve, she can be admitted to the hospital for further "observation," but I'm not sure how observation can tell them anything that the ultrasound and blood work didn't.

Hoping for a good solution for this poor girl who has been through so much.

Brian

Tuckaboo Pam
Member
Posts: 1345
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: Newly diagnosed dog in distress

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 24 Jul 2021, 21:12

Well that is good news, but I am sure you are still distressed. I am so sorry, and sending healing vibes to Miss Lucy, who has been through way too much.

I wonder if she could POSSIBLY have some gas that isn't moving? No idea if gas shows up on ultrasound, but since she has EPI we know she has SID, and you say she hasn't taken antibiotics. The antibiotic Tylan would perhaps be prescribed with a SID diagnosis. If she isn't panting, it would seem she's only in pain when you touch her. So, could she just be staying still because it hurts only when she moves? Oh, I don't know, but I thought I'd add this.

Do you think maybe you should just give her broth for the next day or so? Or maybe just boiled chicken? To give her belly a break, I am thinking.

Sorry, I don't mean to be a pest, but I keep thinking about her.---Pam & Tucker
Tucker was a shepherd/lab mix--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Took Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlabs B12 one capsule per day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon/ morning (to hold SID at bay). Taste of the Wild High Prairie, 1 1/2 cups/day, with a total of 4 cups of Fresh Pet. Stopped eating everything in sight, and went from 60 to 85 pounds! Tucker was my boyfriend, and my husband was OK with that. Tucker succumbed to hemangiosarcoma, but we cherished every day we had with that wonderful, beautiful boy. I will always, always miss my sweet big boy.

Lucys_Dad
Member
Posts: 10
Country: United States
State: California
Pet name: Lucy
My name: Brian

Re: Newly diagnosed dog in distress

Post by Lucys_Dad » 24 Jul 2021, 21:47

Thanks for the suggestions, Pam. Not a pest at all, all of these suggestions are good ones and we need all the help we can get!

It is possible that she has some built up gas. I’m not sure if that shows up on an ultrasound, but will look into it. They did say that she had a little fluid buildup (but not concerning). So I know they can see fluid, but not sure about gas.

We are thinking of putting her on an enzyme-incubated broth, rice, and pumpkin mix for a few meals and see if that helps. But she is still pooping regular poops and has never had anything indicative of an upset tummy (no diarrhea, vomiting, etc.). So I wonder whether we should keep her on what we’ve been doing (smaller portions of her Taste of the Wild kib + enzyme) or if we should change her diet and potentially have one more variable in the mix. What do people think?

Thanks again for your thoughts and suggestions!!

Barb
Staff
Posts: 918
Country: United States
State: New Jersey

Re: Newly diagnosed dog in distress

Post by Barb » 25 Jul 2021, 15:52

I am sure they checked for bloat, but the fact that she feels pain when touched makes me wonder if she could have partial bloating from gas or food in her stomach. Did they rule out bloat? Usually the gas gets worse and proceeds to the stomach twisting if the gas is not removed but I wonder if there could be a variation……as I said I am sure they checked for this…"I just wish I had a solution for you and poor Lucy.

Our Kolby bloated and needed emergency surgery……thereafter, we gave him a Gas-X pill every night after his evening meal to prevent gas buildup.

Barb

Lucys_Dad
Member
Posts: 10
Country: United States
State: California
Pet name: Lucy
My name: Brian

Re: Newly diagnosed dog in distress

Post by Lucys_Dad » 25 Jul 2021, 23:33

They did check for bloat and said everything is fine.

Lucy is making very slow progress. She hasn’t gotten worse, so that’s good.

She is still having very good poops and on a regular basis. She’s a little more excited about eating and will even get up when she sees her kibble bowl and she eats all of her food. And she no longer yelps when we pick her up.

But she’s still VERY lethargic and just wants to sleep. That said, when we take her outside, she wants to keep walking even when she looks tired and a little uncomfortable. And she shakes when standing or even sitting. But when laying down, she is relaxed and calm.

Her breathing when she sleeps is more rapid and much shorter breaths than normal.

So it seems like she’s not getting worse and is making baby steps to improvement. But we still can’t figure out what could be wrong.

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Jean
Forum Director
Posts: 1707
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: Newly diagnosed dog in distress

Post by Jean » 26 Jul 2021, 04:05

I am out of ideas

when you open her mouth do her gums etc look normal ?

is her normal vet back soon ?

I am thinking maybe, and I mean maybe, she has eaten something outside, OR she has been bitten by some kind of insect, we had a dog here many moons ago that had a spider bite, and it was serious, she had gone under thae bed if my memory serves me well, and it had got her

now one thing comes to mind is Cushings disease, does she have any clusters of what looks like black bits on the skin, almost like small blisters like black heads we had as teenagers

My friends dog had this and started in the way you describe

I will ask our founder to chime in she had dealt with it personally

jxx
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

Tuckaboo Pam
Member
Posts: 1345
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: Newly diagnosed dog in distress

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 26 Jul 2021, 07:22

Brian, can you tell us how Lucy is doing today?
Tucker was a shepherd/lab mix--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Took Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlabs B12 one capsule per day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon/ morning (to hold SID at bay). Taste of the Wild High Prairie, 1 1/2 cups/day, with a total of 4 cups of Fresh Pet. Stopped eating everything in sight, and went from 60 to 85 pounds! Tucker was my boyfriend, and my husband was OK with that. Tucker succumbed to hemangiosarcoma, but we cherished every day we had with that wonderful, beautiful boy. I will always, always miss my sweet big boy.

Lucys_Dad
Member
Posts: 10
Country: United States
State: California
Pet name: Lucy
My name: Brian

Re: Newly diagnosed dog in distress

Post by Lucys_Dad » 26 Jul 2021, 13:34

Lucy isn't doing worse, but she's doing only slightly better.

She's still VERY lethargic (sleeping comfortably the entire day) and somewhat disoriented and not her usual self. She is still shaking badly when she is standing or sitting, but is able to rest comfortably when laying down.

Her poops and pees have always been and are still regular, firm well-formed poos, and on a good schedule. She has not had any vomiting, constipation, or diarrhea. She is not "begging" for food like she used to, but when we put food in front of her and nudge her, she eats it all. In short, the food is going in and seems to be going through her system and coming out well. This makes me think it is highly unlikely this has a GI related cause (or that its related to her EPI).

Based on the symptoms I've see described for Cushing's Disease, I think that's also an unlikely cause. She has not had any black heads on her skin, no excessive thirst, increased urination, increased appetite, excessive panting, thin or fragile skin, or hair loss. Since she doesn't have any of these symptoms at all, I don't think Cushing's is very likely.

I was thinking it could possibly have a muscle or skeletal cause (like a pinched nerve, pulled muscle or hip problems), but we (and her vet) have palpated her all over and couldn't get a painful response. Also, when we take her out, she is eager to walk for a LONG time and doesn't show any signs of extreme pain.

It could be an insect bite, but we have checked her thoroughly and can't find anything. Also, she doesn't seem to be scratching or licking anywhere indicating that her skin is irritated. The vet used the ultrasound to check for her swallowing anything that could cause a blockage and found nothing (also, her symptoms don't seem consistent with a blockage since she is eating and her food seems to be going through her system and coming out as normal, well-formed poops)

It seems everything I can come up with can be excluded by her symptoms.... Still searching for an answer!

Thanks again for all of the support and thoughts. It takes a village to crack this medical oddity case!!

Tuckaboo Pam
Member
Posts: 1345
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: Newly diagnosed dog in distress

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 26 Jul 2021, 16:28

Brian, do you have any sago palms in your yard? Or any other known dog toxins she could have taken a nip from? My friend lost her collie after it ate just a tad of a sago palm seed. If there is a possibility, then you should alert the vet & deal with it immediately.

Lucy has a few of the symptoms, but not all. Lethargy & wobbling are two that stood out when i googled it. ---Pam
Tucker was a shepherd/lab mix--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Took Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlabs B12 one capsule per day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon/ morning (to hold SID at bay). Taste of the Wild High Prairie, 1 1/2 cups/day, with a total of 4 cups of Fresh Pet. Stopped eating everything in sight, and went from 60 to 85 pounds! Tucker was my boyfriend, and my husband was OK with that. Tucker succumbed to hemangiosarcoma, but we cherished every day we had with that wonderful, beautiful boy. I will always, always miss my sweet big boy.

Lucys_Dad
Member
Posts: 10
Country: United States
State: California
Pet name: Lucy
My name: Brian

Re: Newly diagnosed dog in distress

Post by Lucys_Dad » 27 Jul 2021, 10:25

Good news! Lucy seems to be back (almost) to 100%! She's back to her quirky and sometimes crazy self, running around at dinner time, and even playing with her toys. She's no longer shaking when standing/sitting and she's back to being a normal food-motivated pug.

It's funny, we watched her tail act as a health gauge throughout the day yesterday, going from being tucked between her legs in the morning when she wasn't doing so great, to being horizontal but straight in the afternoon when she started feeling better, to being up, curly and wagging in the evening when she was almost back to herself.

I guess we'll never know what caused her brief (and expensive!) scare, but glad it seems to be behind her for now and I'm glad the ultrasound ruled out any tumors or other major problems.

Thanks again for everyone pulling together to try to help figure out this medical oddity. We (and Lucy) really appreciate the support of this great community!

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