New EPI Diagnosis

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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Olesia711
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Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: New EPI Diagnosis

Post by Olesia711 » 28 Jul 2021, 22:34

oh good... some pictures..... thanks ..... definitely makes me fee more positive about things.... this has the look of typical "SID" poo.... my guess is a combination of the right amount of enzymes and the right amount and right kind of food hopefully will improve this :)

TG for pictures they often "explain" things better then printed words :)
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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aj6153
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Location: Florida
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Pet name: Bailey
My name: Alice

Re: New EPI Diagnosis

Post by aj6153 » 28 Jul 2021, 22:43

So if none of the other changes work, we may need to consider changing food? I guess it’s all about baby steps and patience. I’m glad things didn’t look like there was a major problem. Next step will be increasing the Tylan a smidge in a few days.

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Jean
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Location: South Liverpool
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Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: New EPI Diagnosis

Post by Jean » 29 Jul 2021, 05:09

any changes need to be recorded, and one at a time

I havent an EPI dog at present she died 2019, but dealt with it for 10 years and been round the block with foods etc some of the time

anyway, so you were dealing with Pancratitis for some time, this does sometimes lead to the pancreas basically wearing out and EPI takes over

food is the biggie, my girl was intolerant of beef, white fish, chicken and pork (by blood test), thank God she could tolerate porcine enzymes

we used lamb based grain free dog kibble, no chicken or poultry fat

you are also dealing with Cushings which I know a bit about as a friends dog had it and Olesia also has dealt with it

personally I wouldnt go near prescription foods such as Hills or RC, too much grain

you mentioned Metro, I too wouldnt advise it, I personally am allergic to it, they use it here at the dentists , I ended up in hospital with my throat almost closed over and completely lost the plot, it has neurological side effects in dogs and humans, and they are serious

try to get some grain free, preferably no chicken or poultry fat, for some reason our dogs often cannot tolerate it, mine included

weird ! my vet said at the time that the chicken they use is low grade, and full of nonsense !and he had dealt with EPI since the 80's
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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aj6153
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Re: New EPI Diagnosis

Post by aj6153 » 29 Jul 2021, 08:19

Thanks Jean! I’m definitely staying away from the Metro based on everyone’s feedback and what I have read about it. Maybe grain free lamb should be something to try if I can find it. When switching foods you go slow and follow the guidelines on the new food? It’s confusing since if it was the food then other items we tried might be ok but the food negates them(like slippery elm)? I am about to change to Digging from slippery elm since I’ve been using slippery elm for 3 days with no change. Not sure if I should up the Tylan a smidge first though.

Tuckaboo Pam
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Re: New EPI Diagnosis

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 29 Jul 2021, 10:53

Alice, that is how Tucker's poop looked when he started stabilizing. Good job. I think the color is probably food related.

My vet said she had never had a case, of EPI , ried a couple of things, and then referred me to her mentor, who knew his stuff. Fortunately, here in Gainesville we have the vet school, so there is a lot of support for acquiring new information. My vet, however, seems to think EPI is a very rare condition, and she isn't interested in the foundation. She is willing to support me in getting the supplies I have learned about from the forum., though, so that's good . We love her, anyway, and just rely on the forum for advice. 2 years later, and we are going strong.

I hope your vet is interested in reading some of the pages from this wonderful website. Keep up the good work!---Pam
Tucker is a shepherd/lab mix; he has tested positive on the ScheBo test for EPI, as well as the fasting TLI. Results--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Currently taking Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlab B12 one capsule per day, slippery elm 1/8 teaspoon twice/day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon twice/day (to hold SID at bay). Sport Dog Elite, herding dogs 3 1/2 cups/day. No more poop eating, has gone from 60 to 80 pounds, and he is a happy member of the family, though a bit of a stinker, if you ask the other dogs. Tucker is my boyfriend, and my husband is OK with that.

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aj6153
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Re: New EPI Diagnosis

Post by aj6153 » 29 Jul 2021, 11:32

Hi Pam,
I’m glad everyone thinks the poo doesn’t look too bad. I think there is a recommended vet in Coral Springs. I could possibly take Bailey there for another opinion at some point I also love my vet but don’t know how versed they are at dealing with this. They are open to the info on website so that’s good. I feel like such a pain giving everyone the blow by blow of what’s going on. I’m so grateful for the support and encouragement.

Jane&Clyde
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Re: New EPI Diagnosis

Post by Jane&Clyde » 29 Jul 2021, 13:14

Alice,

Take a deep breath and try to relax a little. I know it's hard since you want to help Bailey do better as quickly as possible. Patience is the key. I'm glad you decided to increase the enzymes to the appropriate level. That is a very important first step. Personally, I would quit messing around with the Slippery Elm and the Digging pumpkin product for now. They are unlikely to make a large difference, and you need to get the basics in place first.

One of the basics will most likely involve a food change. The food you are feeding isn't a very good match for an EPI dog. However, don't run out and buy a different food until you receive further advice. If your dog just has EPI, it would be easy to suggest a food. However, if Bailey truly still has pancreatitis, that's a different story. People with more knowledge than me can help if that is the case. Was Bailey's PLI also tested along with the TLI? If so, could post the result? It would help if you posted the results of the TLI, PLI, Cobalamin, and folate tests.

Jane

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aj6153
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Re: New EPI Diagnosis

Post by aj6153 » 29 Jul 2021, 16:47

Hi Jane,

The vet just emailed Bailey’s TLI results to me. Here they are:

TLI - 1.8
Cobalamin - 550
Folate -20.0

I don’t have a PLI result. I’m not sure if that is routinely done with the rest of the tests?

I increased the Tylan by 1/8 tsp this morning. Bailey had diarrhea this afternoon. I don’t know if it would have affected him that quickly. Can you give me an input on what these tests results mean?

Thanks!

Tuckaboo Pam
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Re: New EPI Diagnosis

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 29 Jul 2021, 17:37

Hi Alice. Thanks for posting.

TLI---Bailey has EPI, as long as the number is below normal, that's all you need. 1.8 was Tucker's number, too.

Cobalamin---B12 supplementation is needed, so if you're not already, you should order Wonderlabs Pet B12 with intrinsic factor.
EPI dogs need a score of over 600. Tucker's was 666, and even then I was advised to supplement and I do.

Folate score can indicate SID (I think!), but since all EPI dogs have SID, and since you are giving Tylan, you are already working on that.

PLI, I don't know what that is, either.

We all need to keep in mind that your Bailey also has Cushings, and there may be some advice that we would normally give, but should not give to you.

Diarrhea is a bummer! Are you breaking his meals into two or three feedings a day, always with the appropriate amount of enzymes? I can't imagine Tylan giving him diarrhea, but just in case, maybe go back to his previous dose.

I agree with Jane, next try his food. But wait, because all these changes are still pretty new. Some dogs stabilize faster than others, and with the treatment, every dog is different, too. If you look below posts, at the bottom some of us have a signature, where we type what we do, the food we use, etc., if you're ever looking for ideas.

As far as your inexperienced vet goes, if she is willing to learn with you, that is a good scenario.

As always, I count on somebody from staff to correct any mistakes I may make!

---Pam
Tucker is a shepherd/lab mix; he has tested positive on the ScheBo test for EPI, as well as the fasting TLI. Results--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Currently taking Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlab B12 one capsule per day, slippery elm 1/8 teaspoon twice/day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon twice/day (to hold SID at bay). Sport Dog Elite, herding dogs 3 1/2 cups/day. No more poop eating, has gone from 60 to 80 pounds, and he is a happy member of the family, though a bit of a stinker, if you ask the other dogs. Tucker is my boyfriend, and my husband is OK with that.

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aj6153
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Re: New EPI Diagnosis

Post by aj6153 » 29 Jul 2021, 18:27

Thanks for breaking the test results down for me Pam. I will order the Wonderlabs B12. I’m giving Bailey three meals a day(150% of his normal
Amount) with 2 tsp of enzymes per meal. I will go back to the previous dose of Tulane and see if that helps. I’m looking at food options in case I need to switch.

Does anyone know of it’s correct if your dog gets too much B12 it’s not harmful and they will pee it out?

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