New EPI Diagnosis

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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aj6153
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Location: Florida
Country: United States
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Pet name: Bailey
My name: Alice

New EPI Diagnosis

Post by aj6153 » 24 Jul 2021, 17:29

My wonderful best friend, Bailey was diagnosed with EPI and SID last week. Bailey is a nine year old Husky/Lab mix. We are struggling to get chronic loose stool under control. His current weight is 68 lbs(down from 78 lbs at this time last year). He recently switched over to Purina EN from Royal Canin Gastro Low Fat. He is eating a little over 1 3/4 c. of food three times a day mixed with 1/2 c Hills ID wet food and 1 1/2 tsp Panzquin enzymes with B12. He also gets Tylin powder 1/4 tsp twice a day in a pill pocket right after his meal. He has Cushings and takes his meds for Cushings right before breakfast and dinner. I recently purchased Digging Your Dog Firm Up and added 1tsp to his food and let everything incubate for 45 mins. He had a slight improvement this morning. I just received Slippery Elm powder from Wonderlabs. I’m not sure if I should give the Digging your dog with every meal or how much to give. I’m also not sure how much Slippery Elm to give. Can the Slippery Elm be mixed with the enzymes, food, and Digging your dog? Any help or suggestions anyone has would be greatly appreciated. It’s so confusing trying to figure out the best course of action. I just want to see him thrive. Sorry for the run on post! So much information to try and fit in!
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Tuckaboo Pam
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Posts: 1346
Country: United States
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Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: New EPI Diagnosis

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 24 Jul 2021, 18:05

Hi Alice, from Pam & Tucker in Gainesville.

First of all, you are going to get a lot of help from this wonderful forum. I have been dealing with Tucker's EPI for over two and a half years, and while you are feeling completely overwhelmed right now, I promise you it gets better. EPI is manageable. I am going to touch on a couple of things, but since I know nothing about Cushings I'll have to be careful.

If you go back to the main forum page, you can enter Cushings into the search field, but I am sure some staff will jump in with some facts for you.

Digging Your Dog has a lot of fiber in it, and what Bailey needs is low fiber. His food should be less than 4% fiber, because fiber interferes with the enzymes. You should maybe stop giving it to him. Low fat food is totally unnecessary, unless that is a Cushings thing. Food should be grain-free, with no peas. Many of us feed certain varieties of Taste of the Wild & Sport Dog Elite with great success.

https://epi4dogs.com/enzyme-list/ If I am reading this chart correctly, you may not be giving quite enough enzymes. The ratio is 1 cup kibble/ 1 teaspoon enzymes, and 1 cup wet food/ 3/4 teaspoons enzymes. I hope that makes sense. With many of the enzymes 20-30 minutes incubation is enough. (check out enzyme diane & save some $ on the enzymes).

Sounds like the Tylan is right. You give that amount for 45 days, and then SLOWLY wean off it. This treats the SID, which all EPI dogs have.

Please post the test results from your vet. This will be very helpful. So, like I said, I am unfamiliar with Cushings, and so I'll back off.

Apologies, if I refer to Bailey as "she", but it is my daughter's name. Much to her dismay, she has the #1 dog name in the country.

Oh, your post is not too long. Say & ask what you need to. We're here for you.--Pam
Tucker was a shepherd/lab mix--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Took Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlabs B12 one capsule per day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon/ morning (to hold SID at bay). Taste of the Wild High Prairie, 1 1/2 cups/day, with a total of 4 cups of Fresh Pet. Stopped eating everything in sight, and went from 60 to 85 pounds! Tucker was my boyfriend, and my husband was OK with that. Tucker succumbed to hemangiosarcoma, but we cherished every day we had with that wonderful, beautiful boy. I will always, always miss my sweet big boy.

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aj6153
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Location: Florida
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Bailey
My name: Alice

Re: New EPI Diagnosis

Post by aj6153 » 24 Jul 2021, 19:13

Hi Pam and Tucker,

Thanks so much for the information. I’ll make some changes and see how it goes. Maybe I need to up the enzymes. I thought I read somewhere on the website that some people give their dogs pumpkin. Maybe I have that wrong. I have a lot to learn. Bailey’s Cushing’s is under control with medication(Cushings causes an over production of cortisol). I just mentioned it to give a background on what he’s dealing with. No worries about thinking he is a girl. It’s a great name for a boy or girl 😉 and I didn’t mention which one he is. I definitely think I’m in the right place for gathering the knowledge to deal with this condition. Thanks again for your help!

Tuckaboo Pam
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Posts: 1346
Country: United States
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Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: New EPI Diagnosis

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 24 Jul 2021, 20:48

You touched on something that is curious to me, too. Sometimes pumpkin is recommended, in fact Tuck was scooting & licking, and my vet said give it to him & I did it because I had seen it mentioned here. I only gave him a couple tablespoons a day. It's usually not just for firming the poo, though. That is done with the enzymes, B12, proper food, and controlling SID.

Another good idea is to keep a written account of what you do and what the result is. And only make one change at a time.
Take Care---Pam
Tucker was a shepherd/lab mix--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Took Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlabs B12 one capsule per day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon/ morning (to hold SID at bay). Taste of the Wild High Prairie, 1 1/2 cups/day, with a total of 4 cups of Fresh Pet. Stopped eating everything in sight, and went from 60 to 85 pounds! Tucker was my boyfriend, and my husband was OK with that. Tucker succumbed to hemangiosarcoma, but we cherished every day we had with that wonderful, beautiful boy. I will always, always miss my sweet big boy.

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aj6153
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Posts: 47
Location: Florida
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Bailey
My name: Alice

Re: New EPI Diagnosis

Post by aj6153 » 24 Jul 2021, 20:55

That’s a good idea Pam. I’m going to print the log sheet from the website so I can keep track of any changes I make. I can see how it could get very confusing to remember what you’ve tried. I’m also going to get Bailey’s TLI results from the vet and post them.

Have a good night!

Alice

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Kodis Mom
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Re: New EPI Diagnosis

Post by Kodis Mom » 24 Jul 2021, 21:31

Welcome Alice and Bailey. Glad you made it on the forum. I have never had to deal with cushings and epi. Someone more versed with it will be on soon.
Kodi
B. 8/19/2010 Diagnosed at 11 months.
Kodi is now on Natures Logic turkey and/or pork kibble, 2 cups with 2 teaspoons of enzymes, 1/8 teaspoon of ground coriander, 1/16 teaspoon of cinnamon and ground fennel seed (for tummy upsets) twice a day, plus one one B12 capsule from Wonderlabs. She has been very stable and on occasion needs a dose ofTylan.
She is our second GSD with EPI. It was not so scary this time ! And thank goodness for epi4dogs.com ! 💝 Kodi passed on August 25, 2023 just after her 13th birthday.💝 Forever grateful to Olesia and epi4dogs. She live a long and adventurous life with EPI.

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Olesia711
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Re: New EPI Diagnosis

Post by Olesia711 » 24 Jul 2021, 23:13

Hi,

My non_EPI dog had Cushings. Actually A-Typical Cushings.... he was on Lysodren (and then Mitodane) and lived for 11 more years with Cushings..
Yes you can give SLippery Elm and Digging to a dog with Cushings and with EPI..... HOWEVER..... i would try each one separately to see how well your dog does and then start with 1/2 the recommended amount if you want to try using both at the same time. To test how well (or not) your dog dos with both products at the same time. The reason why i am suggesting doing it this way is because they are both fibers.... and although good fibers and usually well tolerated by an EPI dog... using both at the same time might be too much of a good thing (fiber) for the EPI condition. Both products used together should be just fine for the Cushings condition.... in this case you just have to test it out with the EPI condition....

BTW, Bailey looks like a real sweetie,,, reminds me of a dog i had a long time ago...
Regarding the Digging dosage.... i am pretty sure there are instructions of how much to give on the back of the package.
Regarding the Slippery Elm dosage.... sometimes with slippery elm starting off with less then what is recommended is better . We have dosing instruction on the SLippery Elm page here: https://epi4dogs.com/slippery-elm/
Hope this helps
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

Tuckaboo Pam
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Posts: 1346
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: New EPI Diagnosis

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 25 Jul 2021, 06:43

So, now I am totally confused as to why we recommend low fiber food & then give fiber. I have wondered about this many times. Does dog food typically have poor quality fiber in it? Grains? Am I OK giving Tucker pumpkin ever day, and always, to keep his scooting at bay? --- Pam

Sorry to pirate your post!

Really sorry to give wrong info, too.
Tucker was a shepherd/lab mix--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Took Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlabs B12 one capsule per day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon/ morning (to hold SID at bay). Taste of the Wild High Prairie, 1 1/2 cups/day, with a total of 4 cups of Fresh Pet. Stopped eating everything in sight, and went from 60 to 85 pounds! Tucker was my boyfriend, and my husband was OK with that. Tucker succumbed to hemangiosarcoma, but we cherished every day we had with that wonderful, beautiful boy. I will always, always miss my sweet big boy.

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aj6153
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Posts: 47
Location: Florida
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Bailey
My name: Alice

Re: New EPI Diagnosis

Post by aj6153 » 25 Jul 2021, 17:08

Hi Olesia,

Thanks for the information. The Digging Your Dog recommends 3-4 tablespoons for Bailey’s weight. I wasn’t sure if that was too much. I’m assuming that amount is per day and not per meal. I’ll definitely try the slippery elm separately. Bailey takes Vetoryl for Cushings and is doing well with that. Is it common between food changes, enzymes and antibiotics that it could take several weeks to see the full positive changes? Our vet wanted to switch him to Metro if he wasn’t doing better in a week but I asked to give him some more time on the Tylan while we up his enzymes. Our vet agreed but if we don’t see improvement, does anyone have experience using Metro long term?

He really is a sweet boy. He went from a puppy that chewed through half my house to a loyal, loving companion who has added so much to my life.
Here he is with his brother Bo(he has two cat sisters at home too!)
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aj6153
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Location: Florida
Country: United States
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Pet name: Bailey
My name: Alice

Re: New EPI Diagnosis

Post by aj6153 » 25 Jul 2021, 17:11

Hi Pam,

No problem! We’re all on a learning curve. We learn best by sharing info!

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