New EPI Diagnosis

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
Jane&Clyde
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Pet name: Clyde
My name: Jane

Re: New EPI Diagnosis

Post by Jane&Clyde » 29 Jul 2021, 18:46

TLI: shows whether or not a dog has EPI. We know Bailey has it, but nice to see the number.

Cobalamin: Like Pam said, it's the test for B12 and dogs with EPI need scores around 600 or better. Bailey's was actually quite good. Clyde's was 228. Apparently you vet knows about the need for a higher B12 than other dogs because he prescribed enzymes with B12 in it. Since the enzymes have a form of B12 in them, you may not need the Wonderlabs product. Olesia would know. If given too much, the dog will just pee it out.

folate: Used to be the test relied on for a SID diagnosis. Unfortunately, some vets still rely on it. Looks like your vet knows to rely on symptoms or knows that all EPI dogs have SID since he started treatment with Tylan.

PLI: can indicate pancreatitis. How was Bailey's pancreatitis diagnosed? Was it just based on loose stools? Did Bailey then or now have signs of pain, especially after eating? The reason I am curious about this is that it could have a major impact on the recommended diet. Most of the commonly recommended diets for EPI on here are probably not suitable for a dog with pancreatitis. So we would need to know whether Bailey has both pancreatitis and EPI or just EPI.

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aj6153
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Location: Florida
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Pet name: Bailey
My name: Alice

Re: New EPI Diagnosis

Post by aj6153 » 29 Jul 2021, 19:47

Hi Jane,

Bailey’s pancreatitis was diagnosed due to loose stool and ultrasound. He gets an ultrasound periodically due to Cushings. They found that his pancreas was inflamed during the ultrasound. I haven’t seen any signs of pain after he eats. My vet originally placed him on Royal Canin low fat gastrointestinal but once we got the EPI diagnosis told me to switch him to a low fiber, normal fat food. That’s how he ended up on the Purina EN.

Tuckaboo Pam
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Re: New EPI Diagnosis

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 29 Jul 2021, 20:06

Hi Alice. Yes, that's what they say about B12. But, maybe finish up the enzymes you have, before giving the Wonderlabs. As I said before, enzyme diane has a wonderful product, for a fraction of the price your vet has to charge for enzymes. Occasionally, someone will say their dog doesn't do well on them, so maybe just order a small bag at first. You can even get a sample bag. There shouldn't be any adjustment to the new brand. Just a suggestion!

There are four cornerstones to EPI treatment---(I'm sorry I didn't lead with this a few days ago)

Enzymes
B12
SID (tylan, and/or slippery elm + probiotics)
Food <4% fiber. I feed Tucker Sport Dog Elite, herding series, buffalo & sweet potato. I have also used Taste of the Wild Pacific Stream, which costs a little less.

https://epi4dogs.com/antibiotics/ You give tylan for 45 days, with no need to bring the dosage up gradually. After 45 days, you will wean off it slowly, though.

I still feel like you are doing great. And keep making those changes slowly & one at a time. Was there any more diarrhea, though?

---Pam
Tucker was a shepherd/lab mix--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Took Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlabs B12 one capsule per day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon/ morning (to hold SID at bay). Taste of the Wild High Prairie, 1 1/2 cups/day, with a total of 4 cups of Fresh Pet. Stopped eating everything in sight, and went from 60 to 85 pounds! Tucker was my boyfriend, and my husband was OK with that. Tucker succumbed to hemangiosarcoma, but we cherished every day we had with that wonderful, beautiful boy. I will always, always miss my sweet big boy.

Tuckaboo Pam
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Country: United States
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My name: Pam H.

Re: New EPI Diagnosis

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 29 Jul 2021, 20:14

Alice, I sent you an email.---Pam
Tucker was a shepherd/lab mix--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Took Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlabs B12 one capsule per day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon/ morning (to hold SID at bay). Taste of the Wild High Prairie, 1 1/2 cups/day, with a total of 4 cups of Fresh Pet. Stopped eating everything in sight, and went from 60 to 85 pounds! Tucker was my boyfriend, and my husband was OK with that. Tucker succumbed to hemangiosarcoma, but we cherished every day we had with that wonderful, beautiful boy. I will always, always miss my sweet big boy.

Jane&Clyde
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Posts: 157
Country: United States
Pet name: Clyde
My name: Jane

Re: New EPI Diagnosis

Post by Jane&Clyde » 29 Jul 2021, 20:19

Bailey can have normal fat levels. That is exactly what I needed to know! I knew that dogs with pancreatitis needed low fat, and dog's with Cushings are often recommended to go low fat, too. The foods we normally recommend aren't low fat.

I'm still a bit uneasy about recommending a food without someone with more knowledge than me speaking up, but the food Pam mentioned, Sport Dog Elite Series Herding Dog, would be my first choice. It is available on sportdogfood.com and chewy.com.

Whenever you do change foods, please do it very gradually by replacing a small amount of the old food with the new, then increasing the amount of new food by a little each day and reducing the old by the same amount. Hope this makes sense. The whole process should take a minimum of 5 days, longer would be better. Dogs with EPI have a very touchy digestive system, and changing foods too quickly might cause loose stools.

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aj6153
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Location: Florida
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Pet name: Bailey
My name: Alice

Re: New EPI Diagnosis

Post by aj6153 » 29 Jul 2021, 20:55

Thanks Pam & Jane!

Pam - No more diarrhea as of now. Hopefully he’s better. I actually spoke with Diane at enzyme Diane this morning and am going to switch to her enzymes(she is such a nice person and so helpful!). I could not afford to keep Bailey on Panzquin long term. I didn’t receive the email you sent. I did PM you though.

Jane - I’ll definitely take it slow regarding food. I really do think he will need a change.

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Olesia711
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Re: New EPI Diagnosis

Post by Olesia711 » 29 Jul 2021, 21:12

Hi Alice,

Glad to hear no more diarrhea.

Stay on the Tylan.

Regarding B12, yes, they will pee out any excess. Someone suggested ordering the WOnderlabs B12 but holding off on it until you finish the enzymes with the B12 included. That sounds very reasonable to me. WHen these enzymes are completed.... based on your dog's B12 level.... please let me know what your dog's weight is,..... my thought is to give the wonderlabs B12 pill 3 times a week... but i would like to know how much your dog weighs so that i can suggest to ou how much of the Wonderlabs Pet Factor B12.

Regarding Food. Because you dog has EPI and Cushings..... you will want a low fiber content food and you will not want a very high protein loaded food (due to the Cushings) just regular, middle of the road low fiber content food. Also, due to Cushings, avoid organ meats.
SO..... if or when you need to look at possibly changing the food.... anything with crude protein level in the mid 20's to low 30's. this is what i used as a guide line
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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aj6153
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Location: Florida
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Pet name: Bailey
My name: Alice

Re: New EPI Diagnosis

Post by aj6153 » 29 Jul 2021, 21:36

Hi Olesia,

Stay on the 1/4 tsp Tylan twice a day or the increased amount with the additional 1/8 tsp?

Bailey’s weight is currently 68.2 lbs.

Regarding the food, am I correct in thinking I don’t need to be as concerned about the fat content as the protein and of course the fiber?

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jilbert57
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Re: New EPI Diagnosis

Post by jilbert57 » 30 Jul 2021, 09:39

Hi Alice. Olesia gave you great advice on the food. Yes, you don't need to worry so much about fat since it looks like pancreatitis is no longer in play. What was the last Pli score when the pancreatitis was active?
Thanks

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

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aj6153
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Pet name: Bailey
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Re: New EPI Diagnosis

Post by aj6153 » 30 Jul 2021, 10:35

Hi Jill,

I’ll have to check with the vet on the PLI. I’m not sure. Bailey vomited this morning. It looks like mostly bile with a very small amount of food. Could it be from increasing the enzymes or the slight increase in Tylan. Hopefully it was a one time thing but I didn’t know if it could be related to any of the changes we made.

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