Epi4Dogs

Hi again,
I thought I had Blue's regiment down. But I noticed This morning he he had liquid diarrhea, 7am, and at 6Pm mix poo but still diarrhea, then at 9pm he vomited his food with a few whole kibbles.

What was working.
Soak @ meal for 30 mins
AM meal (between 6 am - 7am)

• Sport Elite dog food: 3/4 cups
  Pan-tenex enzymes: 1 tsp
  Trinfac-B for B12: 1/4 to 1/3 capsule

PM meal (5 PM)

• Sport Elite dog food: 3/4 cups
  Pan-tenex enzymes: 1 tsp
  Slippery Elm: 1/8 tsp
  Proviable-DS: whole capsule in for whole incubation time.

Four days ago.
Blue seemed to be doing well his poops where getting better but still soft and a large volume of poop for how much I feed him. So, I decided to take a 1/3 of his food and grind it in a food processor (1/4 cup ground + 1/2 normal) so that the enzyme could reach more of the food.
Two days ago.
I had to open an new jar of enzymes and I thought well I'm only giving him 3/4 cup of food per meal so I will give him 3/4 tsp of enzymes.

I have no idea what to do now. I do not understand how to determine what to do with the vomiting and diarrhea. The bad thing about Sport Elite herding dog food is that everything is BLACK. So, his vomit was black black with as I said a 7 pieces of his kibble roughly 3 hours after he ate.

1. . Does this mean I should just go back to 1 tsp of enzymes per 3/4 cup of dog food for now?
2. . I have a jar of Tylan Soluble but don't know how to administer it to Blue (he is 22 lbs. now). I purchased it from Chewy and the label just says Give as Instructed Tylan Powder 100mg. Do you just add the powder Tylan to the food + water+ enzyme and let sit for the 30 mins? I have a scale that accurate to 0.01 gram

Nervous for Blue

so sorry that Blue is not doing well....

First.... if the poo is tarry black.... bring him to the vet.... it doesn't sound like it is tarry, but i wanted to mention this first, just in case, tarry black could mean an internal bleed.... and if this is the case, then a vet needs to see him.

If not tarry, it sounds like one of a couple of possibilities (in no particular order):
1. something is not right with the new container of PanTenex enzymes.
2. he got into something that he shouldn't have
3. he really does need that 1 tsp of enzymes vs. 3/4 tsp.

SO.... what to do:

(1) If the poo is not tarry.. then i would give him some Tylan now, because if the problem is #2 or #3 that i mentioned above, you should see some improvement once the Tylan is administered.

Since Blue is 22lbs, give him 1/16 to 1/8 tsp of Tylan powder. My first option is to NOT mix it in his meal (he may be one of those dogs that hate the taste of tylan and then you will have wasted an entire meal with enzymes) but instead, either pour the designated amount into an empty gel cap and give after he eats a little bit.... OR.... pour the designated amount into a little pouch that you can form with something like cream cheese. Give this amount twice a day with breakfast and dinner... technically you should give Tylan to get SID under good control for 45 days..... but since this might be a bug or something he got into,.... if you see positive results, try giving for 14 days/twice a day. (you should be able to tell via no vomiting and poos improving)

(2) Give Tylan first and only do this first so you can assess if after giving the Tylan antibiotic a couple of days if it is helping (or not).....
Then, once you can make this assessment, go back to giving 1 tsp of enzymes instead of 3/4 tsp of enzymes. Give this a few days and try to assess if this is helping or not (you should be able to tell via the poos)

If the Tylan doesn't really make that much of a difference and then if the added enzymes also don't make much of a difference or if the added enzymes actually make things worse... like the vomiting, then i would suspect the enzymes. Very rarely is there a problem with enzymes, but i have learned never to say never. In which case, i would contact the company.

I'm so sorry Blue is doing poorly. Olesia gave great advice as always so I don't want to muddy the waters but I noticed you were giving slippery elm only once a day - typically we recommend giving it twice a day am and pm so you might want to try adding it to the morning meal.

good catch Madelon! Thanks!

Try the added Slippery Elm after the Tylan and then the increased enzymes.... see if it helps or hinders.

Thank you, so much I went back to 1 tsp enzymes and I am about to start him with his 1st dose of Tylan.

Grateful,
Christine

Christine,
Since you already started back with the 1 tsp of enzyme... hold of on the Tylan for 2 days.... give the enzymes a chance to see if that is what caused the problem or if not and he needs Tylan......

If you do both at the same time, then you will not be able to figure out what might have triggered this problem......

Sport Dog Buffalo/Sweet Potato produces some super black poop. Just thought I'd add that. Not tarry, but very black. ---P

I was suppose to be posting how well Blue is doing and that is back to a his EPI normal. Then...
I noticed the past week or two he started with the burping. He threw up once three days ago: it was a lot of grass and his poop where normal for him. Thus I just thought he ate something he should not have, since he eats everything and anything he can get his mouth on. About 5 mins ago I hear him throwing up - yellow, slimy liquid.

Back when I originally started this post - I had increased his enzymes to 1 tsp at the same time I started the 2 weeks of tylan. I reread your post and realized I made a mistake but since I change both already I kept with it. While he was on that he got better, no burping, and his poops got better - soft logs. I stayed with the 1 tsp enzymes after the 2 weeks where up.

So, I guess I am going to go back to 1/16 to 1/8 tsp tylan for the full 45 day regiment. Hopefully the tylan will work again, then maybe try to go back down on the enzymes.

When you take him off the tylan, be sure & do it gradually. ---Pam

Thank you. How gradually is gradually?

If he is on 1/8 tsp. AM & PM for 45 days. Do you suggest 1/16 tsp. for a week?