Panakare vs. Enzymediane

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
Wirths1953
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Panakare vs. Enzymediane

Post by Wirths1953 » 03 Aug 2021, 18:01

I have a 2 year old border collie jack Russel mix that has just been diagnosed with epi. We are currently buying panakare plus for her through our vet. It's very expensive. Can I switch to enzymediane which is less money and not cause her any trouble. The only difference I see between the 2 is that enzymediane has about 25% more protease in it. We are brand new at this and would appreciate any thought. Thanks mike.

Tuckaboo Pam
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Re: Panakare vs. Enzymediane

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 03 Aug 2021, 19:33

Hi Mike---

I am sorry your Izzy has been diagnosed with EPI. Take a deep breath, and know that you have come to the right place. The members and staff have tons of information & experience. No question is too small, and you can ask as many of them as you want/need to.

First off, yes, you can start buying Enzyme Diane. The enzymes are considered generic food grade. Buy the 6X, and you will be using the same amount as you use of the Panakare. 1 teaspoon enzymes per 1 cup of kibble, marinated in room temperature liquid (water is fine...I use broth) for 20-30 minutes. Maybe start with a sample bag or a small one. I buy them by the kilo!

Please post the test results from your vet, if you can. The staff will understand what they mean, and can be more specific with their advice.

There are four cornerstones to treatment--

*Enzymes
*B12, must be over 600 in an EPI dog. My Tucker tested at 666, but I supplement him anyway. Wonderlabs Intrinsic Factor B12 is easy to find online
*Food should be <4% fiber, preferably grain-free with no legumes. Many of us feed Sport Dog Elite. Feed 150% of the amount you would feed at your dog's IDEAL weight...this is important, and split it into 2-3 meals a day
*SID (small intestinal symbiosis, which all EPI dogs have) can be treated with slippery elm, probiotics, and Tylan, the best antibiotic (if your vet talks antibiotics, please check the page on antibiotics, because some of them can be bad news)

Right now you are probably feeling overwhelmed, but remember that EPI is a very manageable condition, that sometimes takes a little tweaking, as every dog is different. Look around the site, especially Managing EPI, read the signatures under the comments, and you will get an idea of how some of us deal with our pups.

Please tell us what your routine is, what you are feeding, and does your vet have experience with EPI? Mine did not, but she got us the help we needed. You might want to share this group with yours.

I am not a wealthy person, but through the wonderful people on this forum I have been able to figure out a way to keep Tucker stable, and so can you.

---Pam & Tucker
Tucker was a shepherd/lab mix--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Took Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlabs B12 one capsule per day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon/ morning (to hold SID at bay). Taste of the Wild High Prairie, 1 1/2 cups/day, with a total of 4 cups of Fresh Pet. Stopped eating everything in sight, and went from 60 to 85 pounds! Tucker was my boyfriend, and my husband was OK with that. Tucker succumbed to hemangiosarcoma, but we cherished every day we had with that wonderful, beautiful boy. I will always, always miss my sweet big boy.

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Olesia711
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Re: Panakare vs. Enzymediane

Post by Olesia711 » 04 Aug 2021, 19:57

thanks Pam for helping out with the very thorough response.
YES! one can switch from any brand enzyme to another brand of enzymes all at once... just as long as you are going from a similar dosage of porcine pancreatin powder to another :)
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

Barb
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Re: Panakare vs. Enzymediane

Post by Barb » 05 Aug 2021, 20:55

Welcome, Mike, to you and Izzy. Pam gave you a very good summary of EPI treatment as you get started. The beginning is the hardest stage because everything is so new, but it will get easier as you get those four cornerstones in balance. It helps to keep a log/journal of everything you give Izzy each day, the amounts, and the resulting poos. Then you can see what is working and what needs to be adjusted. You can download a blank log form from our site or just keep a notebook.

And yes, switching to Diane's enzymes will save you lots of money. She has an excellent product and is wonderful to work with. She publishes her phone number on her website, so you can talk to her and ask questions. When we switched Kolby over to her enzymes, he had no negative reaction whatsoever (and he reacted to everything!)

Let us know how you and Izzy are doing. Ask any questions that you have.

Barb

Wirths1953
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Posts: 4
Country: United States
State: Kansas
Pet name: Izzy
My name: Mike

Re: Panakare vs. Enzymediane

Post by Wirths1953 » 06 Aug 2021, 17:37

Thanks so much for the info. Has helped a bunch I'm switching her to one of the dry dog foods on your list. She seems to be doin ok with just the enzymes and her food. We will see how it goes with the new stuff. She was at 28 lbs then went to 21 before we got things found out. She is now up to 30 lbs and keeping me busy again. I'm going to try to post a picture but not good at it . I'm an old guy. Thanks mike

Tuckaboo Pam
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Posts: 1345
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Re: Panakare vs. Enzymediane

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 06 Aug 2021, 17:53

Mike, some of us are old guys, too!

The two main things in the beginning are, getting her to gain weight (yea for you!), and getting her to have some good, solid poo.

For your viewing pleasure, there is even a chart to look at under one of the tabs. ---Pam
Tucker was a shepherd/lab mix--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Took Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlabs B12 one capsule per day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon/ morning (to hold SID at bay). Taste of the Wild High Prairie, 1 1/2 cups/day, with a total of 4 cups of Fresh Pet. Stopped eating everything in sight, and went from 60 to 85 pounds! Tucker was my boyfriend, and my husband was OK with that. Tucker succumbed to hemangiosarcoma, but we cherished every day we had with that wonderful, beautiful boy. I will always, always miss my sweet big boy.

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Madelon
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Re: Panakare vs. Enzymediane

Post by Madelon » 08 Aug 2021, 10:47

Hi Mike - welcome to our EPI family. Don't worry, we will help guide you through the journey. One thing I do want to stress though is the B12 supplementing. Do you know what your dog's B12 level was when diagnosed with EPI? EPI dogs need their B12 on the high side of normal 600+ and supplementing is for life. If the B12 gets low it can cause issues with weight gain, appetite, mood, energy, poop, etc. Most of us use WonderLabs Pet Factor B12 pills (www.wonderlabs.com - use the code EPI4DOGS15 at checkout and you will get a discount on your order).
Madelon, owned by DOC. DOC dx EPI 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24. DOC taught me so much and together we battled and overcame EPI, food sensitivies, environmental allergies but we lost the cancer battle. DOC was dx with hemangiosarcoma 5/2022 and crossed the rainbow bridge July 24, 2022. He is and always will be the love of my life, my soulmate, my heart dog.

Barb
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Re: Panakare vs. Enzymediane

Post by Barb » 09 Aug 2021, 15:12

Hi Mike,

The book I just started begins, “I am older than dirt.” I burst out laughing because that is how I feel some days. Then I read your post about being an old guy….you have plenty of company.

You are doing great if you are seeing weight gain already. Kolby didn’t gain weight for a long time and he was a slow gainer. As others have said the b 12 is really important for weight gain, appetite and a host of other things.

Keep up the good work.

Barb

Wirths1953
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Posts: 4
Country: United States
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Pet name: Izzy
My name: Mike

Re: Panakare vs. Enzymediane

Post by Wirths1953 » 09 Aug 2021, 15:45

Thanks barb. Izzy actually gained 6 lbs in 13 days after we started giving her the enzymes. I talked to my vet today and he said Izzy test showed he b12 , I can't remember the actual name for it. Starts with a c, was at 338 when she was tested. But it should get back to normal as she gets better. Now I'm not sure what to do. He says they don't do blood test for b12. Will it harm her if I give it to her even if her b12 does become normal.

Barb
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Posts: 918
Country: United States
State: New Jersey

Re: Panakare vs. Enzymediane

Post by Barb » 09 Aug 2021, 16:15

Hi Mike,

The word they use for B12 is cobalamin. If it was 338, even though they consider it normal, in an epi dog, because it can drop so suddenly, we like to see it in the 600+ range. And most of us supplement for life with the wonderlabs pills. It will not hurt her. Any excess is peed out.

Barb

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