My 4 months old puppy may have EPI?

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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Michaela
Member
Posts: 148
Country: United States
State: Texas
Pet name: Nikki
My name: Michaela

Re: My 4 months old puppy may have EPI?

Post by Michaela » 28 Aug 2021, 10:03

Your vet may have only seen older dogs with EPI but young puppies are diagnosed with it. Here are just two examples:

https://www.epi4dogs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=312
https://www.epi4dogs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=687

Nikki was on Viokase when she was first diagnosed, it worked great but it's very expensive. Did your vet order the powder or the tablets?

Please read this guide on how to prepare his meals with the enzymes for now until the test results come back, hopefully you will have answers soon. https://epi4dogs.com/epi-quick-guide-usa/

R.I.P. Nikki 11/21/2009 - 05/23/2023

Nikki was diagnosed with EPI in 2010
Royal Canin Gastrointestinal Low Fat canned
Slippery Elm syrup for stomach issues
1 tsp Pan-Tenex enzymes with each meal
Weekly B12 shots, pills didn't work for her
Tylan for life


"If there ever comes a day when we can't be together, keep me in your heart, I'll stay there forever."

Okii Dokii
Member
Posts: 12
Country: Canada
Pet name: Okii
My name: Maggie

Re: My 4 months old puppy may have EPI?

Post by Okii Dokii » 28 Aug 2021, 17:55

Michaela wrote: 28 Aug 2021, 10:03 Your vet may have only seen older dogs with EPI but young puppies are diagnosed with it. Here are just two examples:

https://www.epi4dogs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=312
https://www.epi4dogs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=687

Nikki was on Viokase when she was first diagnosed, it worked great but it's very expensive. Did your vet order the powder or the tablets?

Please read this guide on how to prepare his meals with the enzymes for now until the test results come back, hopefully you will have answers soon. https://epi4dogs.com/epi-quick-guide-usa/
Thanks for sharing the guide. I just fed him the first meal with Viokase enzyme. It’s in tablets.

The vet asked me to give 2tablets (crushed) with each meal.

Last night he had another episode of Diarrhea, started with cow poop to more watery and with mucus - is this common in EPI dogs?

Tuckaboo Pam
Member
Posts: 1345
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: My 4 months old puppy may have EPI?

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 28 Aug 2021, 18:34

Yes, that kind of poop is pretty much a hallmark of EPI, until you get them stabilized. WEith EPI, it's all about the poop. There's even a chart you can look at, to compare with what your guy is doing. It's pretty graphic! https://epi4dogs.com/poop-chart/

You could try adding coconut oil, to speed up his weight gain, and be sure you feed 50% more than the package guide, if he were at his IDEAL weight at this time.

I am so sorry for you. So does this test you are doing include Tli? Remember, your puppy should have nothing but water for twelve hours before the blood draw, if you end up getting it.

For mixing the food & enzymes, here's what I do---
1 scoop enzymes per 1 cup food (I guess you use your tablets, crushed, in whatever proportion your vet said to use), in the bowl
place measured kibble on top
stir in about 1/4 cup liquid per 1 cup of kibble, let sit 20-30 minutes (not everybody does it this way)
Tucker also gets slippery elm, B12, and tylan, but I don't think you are there yet, with your diagnosis.

https://epi4dogs.com/enzyme-list/

If the probiotics are helping firm the poo, that's great.

I hope things go well with the test. It's good to have answers, and soon you will see him back to his old self. Poor baby.


Take care---Pam & Tucker
Tucker was a shepherd/lab mix--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Took Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlabs B12 one capsule per day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon/ morning (to hold SID at bay). Taste of the Wild High Prairie, 1 1/2 cups/day, with a total of 4 cups of Fresh Pet. Stopped eating everything in sight, and went from 60 to 85 pounds! Tucker was my boyfriend, and my husband was OK with that. Tucker succumbed to hemangiosarcoma, but we cherished every day we had with that wonderful, beautiful boy. I will always, always miss my sweet big boy.

Okii Dokii
Member
Posts: 12
Country: Canada
Pet name: Okii
My name: Maggie

Re: My 4 months old puppy may have EPI?

Post by Okii Dokii » 29 Aug 2021, 02:51

Tuckaboo Pam wrote: 28 Aug 2021, 18:34 Yes, that kind of poop is pretty much a hallmark of EPI, until you get them stabilized. WEith EPI, it's all about the poop. There's even a chart you can look at, to compare with what your guy is doing. It's pretty graphic! https://epi4dogs.com/poop-chart/

You could try adding coconut oil, to speed up his weight gain, and be sure you feed 50% more than the package guide, if he were at his IDEAL weight at this time.

I am so sorry for you. So does this test you are doing include Tli? Remember, your puppy should have nothing but water for twelve hours before the blood draw, if you end up getting it.

For mixing the food & enzymes, here's what I do---
1 scoop enzymes per 1 cup food (I guess you use your tablets, crushed, in whatever proportion your vet said to use), in the bowl
place measured kibble on top
stir in about 1/4 cup liquid per 1 cup of kibble, let sit 20-30 minutes (not everybody does it this way)
Tucker also gets slippery elm, B12, and tylan, but I don't think you are there yet, with your diagnosis.

https://epi4dogs.com/enzyme-list/

If the probiotics are helping firm the poo, that's great.

I hope things go well with the test. It's good to have answers, and soon you will see him back to his old self. Poor baby.


Take care---Pam & Tucker
Yes the vet said the panel include TLi test, and also B12 and folate level. I was a bit disappointed that they didn’t mention about fasting until I brought it up, initially they said there is nothing I needed to do before the test.

Anyway, I fed his very first enzyme meal this afternoon followed by dinner in 2 separate portions.
He is still having diarrhea (few hours after the meals). If the enzyme is working, he should be able to digest the bland food right?

Please tell me it is just the enzyme not kicking in yet…. Or maybe I should try feeding kibbles instead??

Tuckaboo Pam
Member
Posts: 1345
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: My 4 months old puppy may have EPI?

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 29 Aug 2021, 19:13

Hey, Maggie. Tucker's recovery was gradual, besides, he is not pooping out what he just ate. Madelon tells people to put a piece of raw carrot in one meal, then record when you see it come out the other end, and you will know his turnaround time. Give the enzymes some time, and know that there are other issues to address, once EPI is confirmed. All of this will help, and provided you can get things shipped to Canada, we can help you save money, too.

The fasting is very important. It's also good to have the blood drawn & sent on a Monday or Tuesday, so it gets to the lab before the weekend & doesn't sit around. I made Tucker's appt as early in the a.m. as I could, so he just had to wait a little late for breakfast, not fast all day. That would be TORTURE for a pupp

Make sure you feed 150% of the recommended amount of kibble for his ideal weight, and break it up into At LEAST two meals.

Sounds like you are getting all the typical tests, your vet just refers to them differently.

Take Care---Pam
Tucker was a shepherd/lab mix--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Took Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlabs B12 one capsule per day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon/ morning (to hold SID at bay). Taste of the Wild High Prairie, 1 1/2 cups/day, with a total of 4 cups of Fresh Pet. Stopped eating everything in sight, and went from 60 to 85 pounds! Tucker was my boyfriend, and my husband was OK with that. Tucker succumbed to hemangiosarcoma, but we cherished every day we had with that wonderful, beautiful boy. I will always, always miss my sweet big boy.

Okii Dokii
Member
Posts: 12
Country: Canada
Pet name: Okii
My name: Maggie

Re: My 4 months old puppy may have EPI?

Post by Okii Dokii » 30 Aug 2021, 18:19

Hi everyone,

So Okii’s TLi result came back and vet said it’s normal (17.0)…. We don’t have the B12 and folate result yet, they need to get more blood sample to test.

Now Vet is suggesting to test for Addison disease because his cortisol level is low.

I am really puzzled right now. This is day 3 of starting enzyme and Okii finally had one solid poop today. (He has ‘t had one solid poop in a month!) The description of Addison disease is quite vague, and Okii doesn’t have any signs of lethargy, weakness, poor appetite, excessive thirst which are some of the symptoms…

Vet said I can still continue the enzyme since it causes no harm. I think I will still keep going with the treatment for TLi everyone suggested and get him tested for B12 and folate. But not having a clear diagnosis is frustrating….

I’m not sure what the cortisol level indicates. If anyone has any insight please share…

Okii Dokii
Member
Posts: 12
Country: Canada
Pet name: Okii
My name: Maggie

Re: My 4 months old puppy may have EPI?

Post by Okii Dokii » 30 Aug 2021, 18:20

Here is test report. Some of the data hasn’t came back yet.
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Jean
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Posts: 1707
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: My 4 months old puppy may have EPI?

Post by Jean » 31 Aug 2021, 03:45

Welcome from the UK

we have had younger dogs than this Oki is beautiful

when Kara was down we fed scrambled egg and mashed potato as per the vet , the poops you mention are similar to what she had, and it was a massive attack of SID Small intestinal Dysbiosis, which in laymans terms is bad gut health caused by bad bacteria , this is normally dealt with by Tylan which is an antibiotic , ask the vet to re run the test as per

https://vetmed.tamu.edu/gilab/service/assays/tli/, you should not have to pay
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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jilbert57
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Posts: 2089
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: My 4 months old puppy may have EPI?

Post by jilbert57 » 31 Aug 2021, 09:07

Hi Maggie, you can use the porcine enzymes for awhile but it is not recommended long term if your pup does not have Epi.
His cortisol level is within the normal range so not sure about the Addisons. Cortisol levels can change due to stress I know.
Let us know when the results of the chronic enteropathy test comes back.
I suspect gut parasites has been ruled out?

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

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Jean
Forum Director
Posts: 1707
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: My 4 months old puppy may have EPI?

Post by Jean » 31 Aug 2021, 12:50

it might be as well if you are testing for Addisons to check for Cushings, get it all out of the way and then weigh up your options

I had a Shepherd puppy with this type of thing and it was a bad case of worms, of every kind known to vets, he got rid of a pound in weight of the damned things, we found them when he poo'd and weighed them, and burned them , and photo'd them for the vet who was virtually sick ! it was like a large bag of bean sprouts

let us know
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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