Zoe, spitting up clear liquid

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
sonjawooden
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Re: Zoe, spitting up clear liquid

Post by sonjawooden » 05 Oct 2018, 14:06

Hello,
I am anxiously awaiting a reply to my last post regarding Tylan dosage vs what my vet ordered. Also I posted a question on someonelse’s post regarding hair loss that I am hoping to hear back on as well. I am not trying to hassle you and I am so grateful for all of your help but I thought I should repost something in case my last post got lost in the pile. Thanks again.
My name is Sonja. Zoe is a 3 y/o female German Shepherd. Dx 8/30/18. Weighed 60 pounds at dx and now weighs 66.6 pounds (after 19 days of treatment). Sport Dog Food Whitefish formula 2 cups 2 times a day. Currently using Bio Case enzymes 1 7/8 teaspoon per 2 cups of food 2 times a day, but will be switching to Enzyme Diane's 6x when we run out. Add slightly less than 1/2 teaspoon Slippery Elm to each feeding (2x/day) and 1000 mg of B-12 PetFactor once a day added to dinner.

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Olesia711
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Re: Zoe, spitting up clear liquid

Post by Olesia711 » 06 Oct 2018, 12:49

Hi Sonja,

Actually your vet's information is okay too...... with some of the more difficult cases, i have heard of vets giving a wee bit higher dose of Tylan initially than the standard dosing recommendations (which is what we have listed on our site) Thankfully with Tylan, you don't have to worry about giving a little too much as there are no known adverse effects (except for loose stools if it doesn't agree with the dog/allergy)....... sometimes a little more is just what is needed. Other times it is not.

So.... in short.... please know that a little higher dose of Tylan is not harmful..... and in Zoe's case, may even be helpful. :)
I would follow follow your vets suggestion :)

Just be sure to give twice a day....and when you see things improve consistently for a week... then, if you want, back down the dose...or not. It is all up to what you think will best benefit Zoe and what her reactions are.

Not sure what your question about hair loss is......... can you report it here so that i may answer your question?
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

sonjawooden
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Re: Zoe, spitting up clear liquid

Post by sonjawooden » 06 Oct 2018, 15:48

Thanks so much for the info. I really would prefer to start Zoe on 1/4 teaspoon twice a day if that dosage for a 70-75lb dog works for most with EPI SID first time treatment. Mainly because of the cost. One bottle at $50 per bottle will only last about 42 days giving 1/4 teaspoon twice a day. If I give 3/4 teaspoon per dose I will go through several more bottles worth. I dont know that Zoe fits in the “more difficult cases” you mentioned. She has only been on enzymes for about 5 weeks and has gained over ten pounds. She has about 50% great poops and the other 50% are too soft or have mucous or lighter in color or combination of those things. We have heard her tummy gurgle on three separate occassions recently and had only one spit up of clear liquid recently. I’m not trying to get you to go against my vet but there must be a reason the chart has lower dosages.
My name is Sonja. Zoe is a 3 y/o female German Shepherd. Dx 8/30/18. Weighed 60 pounds at dx and now weighs 66.6 pounds (after 19 days of treatment). Sport Dog Food Whitefish formula 2 cups 2 times a day. Currently using Bio Case enzymes 1 7/8 teaspoon per 2 cups of food 2 times a day, but will be switching to Enzyme Diane's 6x when we run out. Add slightly less than 1/2 teaspoon Slippery Elm to each feeding (2x/day) and 1000 mg of B-12 PetFactor once a day added to dinner.

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Olesia711
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Re: Zoe, spitting up clear liquid

Post by Olesia711 » 07 Oct 2018, 18:47

the fact that she has already gained 10lbs in 5 weeks is EXCELLENT... and yes, your comment about 50-50 stools with mucus still 5 weeks after being on enzymes is SID.... but it doesn't sound like raging SID.... try the regular dose of Tylan.....you should see improvement within 3 days to a week at the longest..... in the end... what might be needed is this course of Tylan, (sometimes it needs to be repeated) and if it comes back yet again in short order, then the next thing you need to look at is what might be "perpetuating" the SID in which case, next on our list is possibly a diet change

All this to say... one-change at-a-time... is what gets this all under control............but it takes time.

Keep us posted on how Zoe does on the Tylan
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

sonjawooden
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Re: Zoe, spitting up clear liquid

Post by sonjawooden » 12 Oct 2018, 01:28

Hello again. I have some updates on Zoe. She gained another 2 pounds in the last week which puts her at a total of 13 pound gain in 5 weeks since diagnosis with EPI (60lbs to 73lbs). We started Tylan 1/4 teaspoon 2 times a day on Oct 8th (only once with dinner on the first day). The good news is we are lucky and she is taking the Tylan in gel caps "hidden" in her slop of kibble, water, enzyme mixture just fine. The first dose we put powder right in her slop. Pour girl was not very enthusiastic but she actually ate it all. We felt so bad since she really loves her slop, so we decided to put the powder in gel caps any way so she wouldn't have to taste it. The first two days after starting Tylan all poops were firmer and no mucous. Day 3, two out of three stools were softer poops .

So should I keep giving the 1/4 teas 2 times a day for a full week and see how things go or should I up the dose of Tylan now? As a reminder, we discussed the vet ordering 3/4 teas 2 times a day but I wanted to start off with the smaller dose as the chart recommends.

Another question: I want to clarify if the only reason to incubate the enzyme powder is to prevent mouth sores. I ask because right now we are still incubating for 45 minutes which is definitely a pain. We initially were nervous about the mouth sores because her gum line was red so we started incubating the max amount of time right away. Her gum line still looks the same and no sores seen, so maybe her gums already looked like that before starting enzymes and we just never looked. I am unclear if the longer incubation time also helps some dogs struggling with SID. Is there also an added benefit of the longer incubation for starting the food breakdown in the bowl or does that not have anything to do with how they do?

Thanks again for your advice.
My name is Sonja. Zoe is a 3 y/o female German Shepherd. Dx 8/30/18. Weighed 60 pounds at dx and now weighs 66.6 pounds (after 19 days of treatment). Sport Dog Food Whitefish formula 2 cups 2 times a day. Currently using Bio Case enzymes 1 7/8 teaspoon per 2 cups of food 2 times a day, but will be switching to Enzyme Diane's 6x when we run out. Add slightly less than 1/2 teaspoon Slippery Elm to each feeding (2x/day) and 1000 mg of B-12 PetFactor once a day added to dinner.

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Madelon
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Re: Zoe, spitting up clear liquid

Post by Madelon » 12 Oct 2018, 20:38

Glad to hear things are improving. If I were you I would stick with the 1/4tsp 2x a day. Although you don't have a "raging" case of SID, it does take time to get rid of SID. Personally, if I were seeing improvement in the poop, however slight, I would stick with it for about 3 weeks and then if you are still having some off poops you could try increasing, however, I personally would increase to 1/2tsp 2x a day instead of 3/4tsp 2x a day.

Yes part of the reason for incubation is to prevent mouth sores. If you are currently waiting 45 minutes, try backing off to 30 minutes but keep an eye on the poop. Some dogs' poop goes south when people have tried decreasing incubation time.

As for your previous post, please do not every apologize for asking questions. Actually I apologize for no one responding more timely to your questions. You mentioned a question about hair loss but I didn't see the question. Please feel free to ask again here.
Madelon, owned by DOC. DOC dx EPI 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24. DOC taught me so much and together we battled and overcame EPI, food sensitivies, environmental allergies but we lost the cancer battle. DOC was dx with hemangiosarcoma 5/2022 and crossed the rainbow bridge July 24, 2022. He is and always will be the love of my life, my soulmate, my heart dog.

sonjawooden
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Re: Zoe, spitting up clear liquid

Post by sonjawooden » 13 Oct 2018, 11:11

Thank you for the info. Yesterday all poops were good and so far today’s are good too. I will wait until I have a full week of good poops on the Tylan then try to decrease incubation time to 30 minutes. The fur question got anwered on someone else’s post. I was just asking how long it takes for their coat to get better. Zoe’s coat has gotten worse so far since starting the enzymes. Her fur is coming out in clumps and she looks pretty bare even though she is a long haired German Shepherd. Thanks again
My name is Sonja. Zoe is a 3 y/o female German Shepherd. Dx 8/30/18. Weighed 60 pounds at dx and now weighs 66.6 pounds (after 19 days of treatment). Sport Dog Food Whitefish formula 2 cups 2 times a day. Currently using Bio Case enzymes 1 7/8 teaspoon per 2 cups of food 2 times a day, but will be switching to Enzyme Diane's 6x when we run out. Add slightly less than 1/2 teaspoon Slippery Elm to each feeding (2x/day) and 1000 mg of B-12 PetFactor once a day added to dinner.

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Shirl D.
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Re: Zoe, spitting up clear liquid

Post by Shirl D. » 14 Oct 2018, 16:43

My Pixie is a sheltie, and her coat was very thin when she wasn't stable. I actually asked the vet to check for thyroid problems because it was so noticeable. Luckily my vet suggested waiting a few months to see if it came back once she gained her weight back. It wasn't quick, but it did come back very well. I don't remember exactly how long it took, but it was months...it wasn't quick, partly just the nature of how hair grows. Hopefully you will start to see some improvement within a couple months.

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Olesia711
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Re: Zoe, spitting up clear liquid

Post by Olesia711 » 17 Oct 2018, 22:28

I too agree with what Madelon suggested... stick with the current dose of Tylan.... give it a maximum of 3 weeks..... or less if you prefer.... If, the poos have improved but if they still are not perfect by then , then increase the Tylan dose. Madelon explained it nicely in her post.

And glad that Shirley chimed in about how long it can take for the "undernourished" coat to be replaced by nice healthy coat ... now that your pup is absorbing nutrients from food once again.
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

sonjawooden
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Posts: 51
Country: United States
State: Colorado

Re: Zoe, spitting up clear liquid

Post by sonjawooden » 31 Oct 2018, 12:25

Hello again,
Latest update on Zoe. Good news is she has gotten to her goal weight. She now weighs 77 lbs (from 60 lbs) after two months of enzymes and oral Pet Factor vitamen B-12. She has now been on the Tylan 1/4 tsp two times a day for 3 weeks. As discussed in previous posts, you advised to stay at the 1/4 tsp dose for three weeks and watch her poops. So we are now at that three week point. This last week all of her poops have been formed/solid (between a "2" - "3" on EPI poop scale) some with a small amount of mucous seen others with no mucous. Color wise, some of her poop segments are much lighter in color mixed with darker segments (darker segments are the color of her food) and other times the entire poop will be darker. I am guessing since she still has some amount of mucous and some lighter colored poops that she still has some SID going on. Would that be your assessment as well and I should move forward to increasing Tylan to 1/2 tsp twice a day now? Should the goal be all dark firm poop segments with no mucous? I can definitely send recent poop pictures if needed. :) Thank you again, Sonja
My name is Sonja. Zoe is a 3 y/o female German Shepherd. Dx 8/30/18. Weighed 60 pounds at dx and now weighs 66.6 pounds (after 19 days of treatment). Sport Dog Food Whitefish formula 2 cups 2 times a day. Currently using Bio Case enzymes 1 7/8 teaspoon per 2 cups of food 2 times a day, but will be switching to Enzyme Diane's 6x when we run out. Add slightly less than 1/2 teaspoon Slippery Elm to each feeding (2x/day) and 1000 mg of B-12 PetFactor once a day added to dinner.

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