Zoe, spitting up clear liquid

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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Olesia711
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Posts: 893
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy

Re: Zoe, spitting up clear liquid

Post by Olesia711 » 31 Oct 2018, 17:04

Hi Sonja, With an EPI dog... (we now know) you never really get rid of SID completely ... BUT..... those that consistently deliver normal looks solid poos at a normal daily frequency.... that is what we aim for and that is when SID is under really good control .

So.... from what you are describing... yes i think that is a good next step ... increase the Tylan and see if that more consistently improves the poos..... give it a week.... and let us know how things are looking in the poo dept :)

I 've been offline for quite a few days, so i am just now catching up... and WOW!!!! sounds like Zoe has had some really good successes :) CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!
Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Doing great 12+ years later! Once stable at 3+ months, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each cup of food, but as she aged- -had to go back 1 tsp enzymes per cup of food. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil / fish oil daily .... until she developed Diabetes and she now cannot tolerate higher fat foods. Currently feed an 80% home-made diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, 1/3 of a raw egg, fat free cottage cheese, fish oil+vitamins and bone meal with 20% Annamaet Lean & Grain Free kibble. This combo has regulated her Diabetes (takes Vetsulin) and EPI and is very well managed. In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. This is when we discovered that she also developed Diabetes & Low Thyroid. Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the generosity of folks on Epi4dogs! Izzy continues to wake up every day full of joy. I am not a vet. All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal experiences, observations, information gleaned from EPI researchers & pet parents alike, and EPI research. Please share with your vet everything we suggest.

sonjawooden
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Posts: 51
Country: United States
State: Colorado

Re: Zoe, spitting up clear liquid

Post by sonjawooden » 31 Oct 2018, 19:56

Thank you for the advice. I will increase the Tylan. I am trying to calculate when my Tylan will run out and if I should order more. Since we are at the three week point should I plan on giving the higher dose for another three weeks. I remember reading in other posts that it can be best to wean off the Tylan. Can you tell me what that might look like after we complete three additional weeks at the 1/2 tsp twice a day. Thanks again.
My name is Sonja. Zoe is a 3 y/o female German Shepherd. Dx 8/30/18. Weighed 60 pounds at dx and now weighs 66.6 pounds (after 19 days of treatment). Sport Dog Food Whitefish formula 2 cups 2 times a day. Currently using Bio Case enzymes 1 7/8 teaspoon per 2 cups of food 2 times a day, but will be switching to Enzyme Diane's 6x when we run out. Add slightly less than 1/2 teaspoon Slippery Elm to each feeding (2x/day) and 1000 mg of B-12 PetFactor once a day added to dinner.

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Olesia711
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Posts: 893
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy

Re: Zoe, spitting up clear liquid

Post by Olesia711 » 31 Oct 2018, 20:13

the rule of thumb is Tylan for 45 days/twice daily.... and if it returns THEN repeat.... but.... over the years what we have noticed is that sometimes it helps to not stop completely but rather slowly reduce the Tylan over the course of 3 weeks after the Tylan 45 day dose.

HOWEVER... since you are into week 3 and still seeing slime.... your pup is no where near being consistently stable even if the improvement is dramatic with the increased dose..... it will just not be enough time on the increased dose.

My suggestion is to go ahead and order more Tylan .....
Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Doing great 12+ years later! Once stable at 3+ months, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each cup of food, but as she aged- -had to go back 1 tsp enzymes per cup of food. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil / fish oil daily .... until she developed Diabetes and she now cannot tolerate higher fat foods. Currently feed an 80% home-made diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, 1/3 of a raw egg, fat free cottage cheese, fish oil+vitamins and bone meal with 20% Annamaet Lean & Grain Free kibble. This combo has regulated her Diabetes (takes Vetsulin) and EPI and is very well managed. In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. This is when we discovered that she also developed Diabetes & Low Thyroid. Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the generosity of folks on Epi4dogs! Izzy continues to wake up every day full of joy. I am not a vet. All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal experiences, observations, information gleaned from EPI researchers & pet parents alike, and EPI research. Please share with your vet everything we suggest.

sonjawooden
Member
Posts: 51
Country: United States
State: Colorado

Re: Zoe, spitting up clear liquid

Post by sonjawooden » 31 Oct 2018, 20:51

OK, thanks. Ordered more Tylan. So even if the next three weeks show more improvement and even no mucous or light colored poops the last two weeks or so, continue the increased Tylan dose for several more weeks?
My name is Sonja. Zoe is a 3 y/o female German Shepherd. Dx 8/30/18. Weighed 60 pounds at dx and now weighs 66.6 pounds (after 19 days of treatment). Sport Dog Food Whitefish formula 2 cups 2 times a day. Currently using Bio Case enzymes 1 7/8 teaspoon per 2 cups of food 2 times a day, but will be switching to Enzyme Diane's 6x when we run out. Add slightly less than 1/2 teaspoon Slippery Elm to each feeding (2x/day) and 1000 mg of B-12 PetFactor once a day added to dinner.

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Jean
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Pet name: Kara
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Re: Zoe, spitting up clear liquid

Post by Jean » 01 Nov 2018, 03:53

Kara is a lifer with Tylan, we give her a maintenance dose at least once a day, probably 1/32 nd teaspoon, as my vet said if you need it , you need it !

it used to bother me, now its par for the course

Jean
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We use Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules


Jeanx

sonjawooden
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Posts: 51
Country: United States
State: Colorado

Re: Zoe, spitting up clear liquid

Post by sonjawooden » 16 Nov 2018, 07:17

Tylan update and needed guidance: Reminders: Zoe is 77lbs. Diagnosed and started enzymes Sept 1. Started Tylan 1/4 teaspoon twice a day Oct 8th. Increased Tylan to 1/2 teaspoon twice a day on Oct 31. So we are almost to the end of the 45 day initial recommended treatment. In the previous post you suspected we would need to continue longer since we had to increase at the half way point. You have also mentioned some dogs do better if you slowly wean them from Tylan. And I also know from the forum that some stay on a maintenance dose of Tylan forever. So I'm not sure what we should do after this next week. Zoe is having good poops about 3/4 of the time. The other 1/4 of the time she will usually have a poop that is a mixture of good formed dark brown segments with a few segments of much lighter colored poop. I see less mucous in the lighter colored poops compared to the lower dose of Tylan, but on occasion the poops will still look very shiny or some lighter colored segments will be softer as well. Originally the vet recommended 3/4 teas Tylan twice a day but after discussing on this forum I chose the lower dose and even after increasing, only increased to 1/2 teas per dose. At this point, what do you recommend?

Another question: Do you find that once the newly treated EPI dog reaches their ideal weight, their interest in eating slows down? Initially when starting the enzymes, Zoe loved them and would gobble it up quickly. Of course, the Tylan is nasty, and she wasn't a fan from the start, but we put it in gelatin capsules and added to her food, and initially still was very happy to gobble it up including the capsules hidden in the food. Now she is much slower to start eating and much smarter in spitting out the capsules. We have figured out how to put the capsules in the back of her throat if she left them in the bowl so she hasn't ever missed a dose, but her vigor for eating has definitely slowed down. Luckily there has only been one meal in this whole 3 1/2 month process that she didn't eat 100% but I'm just curious if you think she is just sick of the smell and taste of the Tylan or if it is more related to being at her goal weight.

On a positive update, her fur has quit falling out in clumps and she is getting a new thicker coat and her tail is starting to fill out from it's yucky rat's tail look. I can tell with time, she will be a fluffy long haired German Shepherd again.

Thanks a million! Sonja
My name is Sonja. Zoe is a 3 y/o female German Shepherd. Dx 8/30/18. Weighed 60 pounds at dx and now weighs 66.6 pounds (after 19 days of treatment). Sport Dog Food Whitefish formula 2 cups 2 times a day. Currently using Bio Case enzymes 1 7/8 teaspoon per 2 cups of food 2 times a day, but will be switching to Enzyme Diane's 6x when we run out. Add slightly less than 1/2 teaspoon Slippery Elm to each feeding (2x/day) and 1000 mg of B-12 PetFactor once a day added to dinner.

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Jean
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Posts: 572
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara
My name: Jean

Re: Zoe, spitting up clear liquid

Post by Jean » 16 Nov 2018, 07:45

hi

the posibility is she is now at , or near to, her optimum weight, and doesnt need so much food

the coat blowing is totally normal, and means she is absorbing her food and nutrient, and processing everything

the Tylan doseage guide is now on the Announcements bove the forum and was figured out by a vet

I have never been able to stop Tylan

so my thoughts are, keep a diary,and try not to worry, Kara has always been a dreadful eater

what sort of weight do you think Zoe should be
Last edited by Jean on 16 Nov 2018, 07:47, edited 1 time in total.
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We use Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules


Jeanx

sonjawooden
Member
Posts: 51
Country: United States
State: Colorado

Re: Zoe, spitting up clear liquid

Post by sonjawooden » 16 Nov 2018, 08:31

Once Zoe hit 77 pounds, her goal weight, we cut her food amount down to maintain that weight.
My name is Sonja. Zoe is a 3 y/o female German Shepherd. Dx 8/30/18. Weighed 60 pounds at dx and now weighs 66.6 pounds (after 19 days of treatment). Sport Dog Food Whitefish formula 2 cups 2 times a day. Currently using Bio Case enzymes 1 7/8 teaspoon per 2 cups of food 2 times a day, but will be switching to Enzyme Diane's 6x when we run out. Add slightly less than 1/2 teaspoon Slippery Elm to each feeding (2x/day) and 1000 mg of B-12 PetFactor once a day added to dinner.

sonjawooden
Member
Posts: 51
Country: United States
State: Colorado

Re: Zoe, spitting up clear liquid

Post by sonjawooden » 16 Nov 2018, 08:37

Once Zoe hit 77 pounds, her goal weight, we cut her food amount down to maintain that weight. I’m not necessarily worried, I am just seeking out advice on how to proceed. And believe me, I do keep a journal. I actually use an photo journal app on my phone and take a pic of every single poop she has and document all her treatment. Kind of gross and embarrassing if someone sees me scrolling through my photos and see lots of dog poop photos but it’s better than trying to remember from day to day.
My name is Sonja. Zoe is a 3 y/o female German Shepherd. Dx 8/30/18. Weighed 60 pounds at dx and now weighs 66.6 pounds (after 19 days of treatment). Sport Dog Food Whitefish formula 2 cups 2 times a day. Currently using Bio Case enzymes 1 7/8 teaspoon per 2 cups of food 2 times a day, but will be switching to Enzyme Diane's 6x when we run out. Add slightly less than 1/2 teaspoon Slippery Elm to each feeding (2x/day) and 1000 mg of B-12 PetFactor once a day added to dinner.

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Olesia711
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Posts: 893
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy

Re: Zoe, spitting up clear liquid

Post by Olesia711 » 16 Nov 2018, 09:45

YES " Do you find that once the newly treated EPI dog reaches their ideal weight, their interest in eating slows down?"
However.... even though this happens..... still keep an eye on her... as sometimes, when the appetite fades, it could be the B12 slipping.

Regarding the Tylan..... i would continue giving the Tylan... from what you are describing, you still have a long way to go. If it was me, at this stage, even with the improvement, but not quite there....(from what you are describing) i would increase the Tylan by another 1/8 of a tsp and continue for another 45 days.

SID can be a real pain in the butt to #1 get under good control... but once you do.... then the next goal is to #2 keep it under control ... and you still do not have it under good control.

Another thing you can try is to take the total amount of Tylan you are giving in a day and break it down into 3 parts and give 3 times a day............ sometimes this helps the difficult cases.
Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Doing great 12+ years later! Once stable at 3+ months, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each cup of food, but as she aged- -had to go back 1 tsp enzymes per cup of food. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil / fish oil daily .... until she developed Diabetes and she now cannot tolerate higher fat foods. Currently feed an 80% home-made diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, 1/3 of a raw egg, fat free cottage cheese, fish oil+vitamins and bone meal with 20% Annamaet Lean & Grain Free kibble. This combo has regulated her Diabetes (takes Vetsulin) and EPI and is very well managed. In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. This is when we discovered that she also developed Diabetes & Low Thyroid. Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the generosity of folks on Epi4dogs! Izzy continues to wake up every day full of joy. I am not a vet. All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal experiences, observations, information gleaned from EPI researchers & pet parents alike, and EPI research. Please share with your vet everything we suggest.

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