Liver enzymes ALT level of 1500

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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Olesia711
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Re: Liver enzymes ALT level of 1500

Post by Olesia711 » 11 Nov 2021, 07:33

testing to make sure this thread is no longer locked... not sure how/why that happened.
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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nessmuk@ntcnet.com
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Re: Liver enzymes ALT level of 1500

Post by nessmuk@ntcnet.com » 11 Nov 2021, 10:14

Well the 2 days of reduced slippery elm bark didn't seem to do anything to improve his poop. I am attaching poop from the last two days. Today I have increased his enzymes and will wait to see if that helps. How much of an improvement am I looking for? I also just ordered the dog nutriscan test to see if any food allergies could be adding to his problem. I just noticed the recommendation on your website. I would hate to be feeding him something that would be detrimental to his system.
Thanks again and I hope you have a wonderful Veterans Day!
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Olesia711
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Re: Liver enzymes ALT level of 1500

Post by Olesia711 » 11 Nov 2021, 11:44

hmmmm............. thanks for letting us know that too much slippery elm is not the problem.... so cross that off the list.

The large mushy volume kind of looks like the food might not be optimally agreeing. with him and triggering all of this.... but you just can't tell until you "proof" things with an EPI dog.... glad you are now trying increased enzymes... definitely keep us posted and include pictures shen you can.

Finding the magic system with EPI sometimes just take a whole lot of "tweaking".... but we usually can figure it out by doing one-step-at-a-time... although it does tests one's patience!
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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nessmuk@ntcnet.com
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My name: Elizabeth

Re: Liver enzymes ALT level of 1500

Post by nessmuk@ntcnet.com » 12 Nov 2021, 14:59

Ok so I was getting rather depressed and did appreciated your hopeful post. It has been frustrating with so many variables and not knowing which will work but I am so very grateful for your support as I go through this. Finally I have some good news...something helped. I am attaching two photos of his poop today. This morning it was rainy and overcast so it might look wet but this afternoons poop was softish but at least darkish and formed! Yay!. I am now hopeful and will try to repeat what I did yesterday and today with his food and meds. I will continue to keep you posted as you mentioned that it might be his food that is not agreeing with him. A while back I cut out the liver care food as that was new to him and figured I couldn't be sure that it might affect him. Now I am just feeding Canidae salmon/sweet potato dry food which I have been feeding him for years (too scared to change in case something else would negatively affected him). Like I mentioned in an earlier post I did change the lamb tripe from Tripett (no longer available) to Ziwi lamb tripe. As I look back on the timing of all of this. Whiskeys issues began at the end of using the Tripett food (beginning of September). It is odd that it is discontinued still. Maybe nothing but thought I would mention it. I was using the canned food mainly as a topper and I had heard tripe was good for epi dogs. I backed off the amount of the tripe but with all of the powders on his food (as I mentioned before he has always been very picky) I have been putting a small amount plus grading a small amount (1 tsp) of cheddar cheese to help cover the taste of the powders on his food. That is why I am also hopeful that the allergy test might be able to tell me something about what to not feed him. I don't know when I will get the test as it hasn't been shipped yet or how long it takes to get the results. Do you think the test will help us or is it not as much an allergy as something that his system can not tolerate that causes the SID? Good thing I like a mystery as this is all very mysterious! I just wish it wasn't affecting my sweet boy! Anyway I will take these 2 good poops as a step forward and hope for more consistency and clarity in what is causing his issue.
Thanks again for your support....I don't know what I would do without you! .May you and all those you love be abundantly blessed for your generosity and care!
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Olesia711
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Re: Liver enzymes ALT level of 1500

Post by Olesia711 » 12 Nov 2021, 23:20

Excellent improvement!!! great poo.

I am assuming this improvement started with the slightly increased enzymes? If yes, then keep tab on the poos for a few more days, but if you continue to see improvement... then yes.... that mushy/crappy stools you were seeing is from SID and something in the diet is not optimally agreeing with Whiskey triggering the SID to be out of control.

I know this testing things one-at-a-time is not only tedious but frustrating.... and oh my it takes a ton of patience... but it is a method that really works.
Elizabeth... are you keeping a journal/EPI log.... that will also help you as you try to navigate this crazy EPI journey.

THanks for the pics tonight... they really help (and boosted my spirits too as they look so much better than the other poop pics!

do keep a journal of EVERYTHING you give WHiskey...sometimes it can be the tiniest amount of something the least likely that you would suspect that can be the underlying issue....................
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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Madelon
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Re: Liver enzymes ALT level of 1500

Post by Madelon » 13 Nov 2021, 19:36

Hi - sorry I am just catching up on your thread - OMG that picture of your sweet Whiskey in the car is adorable.

You're in good hands with Olesia, so I won't muddy the waters but want to emphasize B12 supplementing - I've tried reducing my boy's a few times and every time I do the poops go south and he loses weight. Also, I'm sure you're already doing this - but keep a detailed journal of everything you give and the resulting poops. You might want to try the carrot test if you haven't already - chop up some carrot and put in the food - make a note of the date/time you give the carrot and then watch for the carrot in the poop - they don't digest it - this will tell you your dog's transition time which will help in figuring out if you change something in the routine if it's working or not.

EPI can be very frustrating when you're trying to figure out all the new stuff but try not to get discouraged, you'll get it figured out it just takes time and patience.
Madelon, owned by DOC. DOC dx EPI 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24. DOC taught me so much and together we battled and overcame EPI, food sensitivies, environmental allergies but we lost the cancer battle. DOC was dx with hemangiosarcoma 5/2022 and crossed the rainbow bridge July 24, 2022. He is and always will be the love of my life, my soulmate, my heart dog.

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nessmuk@ntcnet.com
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Re: Liver enzymes ALT level of 1500

Post by nessmuk@ntcnet.com » 13 Nov 2021, 21:04

Thanks Magelon! He IS a sweet boy! Thanks for the carrot tip. If I can get him to eat it I will try it. He is very picky and doesn't like carrots to begin with and may just eat around them. It would be helpful to know his digestive schedule. I appreciate everyone's kind encouragement. It helps to know that others have gone through this and encourage me to be patient. Thankfully he acts normal and is very playful. If it wasn't that he had such high ALT levels with such soft poop you wouldn't know anything was wrong with him. But now it is all a game of "Catch Whiskey Pooping in the woods". I have 6 dogs and everyone else poops in easier to find places but nooooo Whiskey has to hide it throughout the woods. My rather large woodland property is all fenced in and the dogs are free to go in and out of the house whenever they want so catching him poop has been a real challenge. As the "main" protector of the property is goes out barking around the property all day just warning the wild critters to stay away, Well now when I let him out and he steps one foot into the woods I go grab my phone and coat and often flashlight and chase after him. He just looks at me like really you want to follow me again! Sometimes I will catch a glimpse of him in the woods and run out looking in the area where he was trying to find the "sacred poo". I will call him over to say, show me your poop, Whiskey! He will often walk over to it and show me...good boy I say! I praise him and I can just hear him think.. weird mommy...its just poop! But boy do I notice poop now and my phone photo gallery is full of poop photos! I even created a google photo poop album. I have been keeping a journal for awhile now and am trying to keep good records of what he eats, his actions and the medicines. I did start to give him B12 again so hopefully that will help. I was giving him b12 this spring and when I got his GI bloodwork in July and his B12 levels were way high and I stopped. I hope to get the nutriscan allergy test soon so that maybe that will give me some insight into his food issues if in fact that is what is causing his problem. What do you feed your dog? Do you give them other supplements? My dogs are my world and I want to do everything I can to make them healthy and give them all the best life has to offer. Thank goodness I am retired and have the money and time to give them all of my attention. We live in the Adirondack Mountains of upstate NY and live a simple homesteading lifestyle raising chickens, bees and growing much of our own food. I don't have children so my dogs and cat are my "kids". This is certainly a challenge but I am determined to do what I can to discover what is wrong and do all I can to help him be completely healthy! Thanks again for your support! This is my first experience with posting on a website and can't believe how kind and helpful everyone has been. I just feel so grateful to not be alone! I am attaching a few photos of Whiskey. One of him at a remote lake we hiked to this fall and one with him on the couch. Thought I would break up all the poop photos with something different. Hope that is ok.
Thanks again and take good care!
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nessmuk@ntcnet.com
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Re: Liver enzymes ALT level of 1500

Post by nessmuk@ntcnet.com » 13 Nov 2021, 21:07

Sorry Madelon, I mispelled your name!

Jane&Clyde
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Re: Liver enzymes ALT level of 1500

Post by Jane&Clyde » 13 Nov 2021, 23:10

I'm glad that things are beginning to improve for you and Whiskey. He sure is a handsome fellow!

The food should be grain free, have no more than 4% fiber, and have as few peas as possible. This doesn't take into account Whiskey's liver issues, so take my suggestions with a grain of salt. The food that is the most highly recommended around here is Sport Dog Elite Series Herding Dog formula. It is usually available at the company's website (Sportdogfood.com), Amazon, and Chewy.com (out of stock at Chewy the last I checked). On the Sport Dog website, they sell a small 5lb bag if you want to try a little to see if Whiskey will eat it and how he does. This is the food I feed my dog, Clyde, and he does great on it.

If you look at the bottom of each person's post, many people have put their dog's food, supplements, etc. in the "signature" section. That can give you an idea of what other people are using. I just never did mine...no real reason.

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nessmuk@ntcnet.com
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Re: Liver enzymes ALT level of 1500

Post by nessmuk@ntcnet.com » 13 Nov 2021, 23:30

Thanks, Jane! I just ordered a bag on Amazon and will have it on hand when he is stable and able to try a new food in case its the food that is bothering him. I am hoping that whenever the series of antibiotics is over and we test his blood that his ALT levels will be normal and that the high levels were due to SID and not a liver issue.
Thanks also for the tip on finding treatment info under the post. That is very helpful!
Take good care!

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