Siblings with EPI
Siblings with EPI
My 2 year old male GSD, Maverick, was diagnosed with EPI in May 2021, after bloodwork confirmed my suspicion. Since his diagnosis we've made alot of progress, but it's been a long tiring journey. His condition FINALLY appears to be under control - but recently his sister, Nalla, started exhibiting symptoms consistent with EPI, and similar to Maverick's prior to being diagnosed.
We adopted Nalla in June, shortly after Maverick's diagnosis, because the original owner couldn't keep her. She has been great, and showed NO signs of EPI... until recent. For the past 2 weeks she has been extremely gassy (very smelly), constantly - something her brother too experienced, and one of the first things we noticed/found concerning.
Then, I picked up poop today - for the first time in over a week - and discovered small cowpies everywhere - and the size consistent with hers, not Mavericks - who makes BIG poops. Then I realized how frequently she has been asking to go potty, including throughout the night. I also caught her eating poop (twice), and she has been begging more recently, as if she is starving/hasn't eaten for a long time. These are, unfortunately, the same things I noticed with Maverick initially.
I'm very concerned about how we will he able to afford two dogs with this condition (though hers is not "confirmed" - which is another issue because we can't afford to have her tested right now because of my own upcoming surgery, and having 3 kids with Christmas right around the corner).
Just reaching out for advice, or if nothing else, support. ♡
We adopted Nalla in June, shortly after Maverick's diagnosis, because the original owner couldn't keep her. She has been great, and showed NO signs of EPI... until recent. For the past 2 weeks she has been extremely gassy (very smelly), constantly - something her brother too experienced, and one of the first things we noticed/found concerning.
Then, I picked up poop today - for the first time in over a week - and discovered small cowpies everywhere - and the size consistent with hers, not Mavericks - who makes BIG poops. Then I realized how frequently she has been asking to go potty, including throughout the night. I also caught her eating poop (twice), and she has been begging more recently, as if she is starving/hasn't eaten for a long time. These are, unfortunately, the same things I noticed with Maverick initially.
I'm very concerned about how we will he able to afford two dogs with this condition (though hers is not "confirmed" - which is another issue because we can't afford to have her tested right now because of my own upcoming surgery, and having 3 kids with Christmas right around the corner).
Just reaching out for advice, or if nothing else, support. ♡
I'm Polly, from Wisconsin.
My male GSD, Maverick, born December 2018, was diagnosed with EPI in May 2021 (TLI 0.6 - Folate 13.1 - Cobalamin 351)
Current regimen: Enzyme Diane 6x powder, WonderLabs B-12 supplement. Also given one course of Tylan since being diagnosed.
We adopted his sister, Nalla, in June 2021. She is from the same litter, and recently started exhibiting symptoms concerning for EPI.
My male GSD, Maverick, born December 2018, was diagnosed with EPI in May 2021 (TLI 0.6 - Folate 13.1 - Cobalamin 351)
Current regimen: Enzyme Diane 6x powder, WonderLabs B-12 supplement. Also given one course of Tylan since being diagnosed.
We adopted his sister, Nalla, in June 2021. She is from the same litter, and recently started exhibiting symptoms concerning for EPI.
- Madelon
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Re: Siblings with EPI
Hi Polly, welcome to our EPI family. Paws crossed Nalla does not have EPI but may possibly just have SID (small intestinal dysbiosis), which is common in GSD. Although we don't know the "cause" of EPI, there have been studies that show a genetic component and we have had members here report that they have found EPI in siblings/bloodline, so it's definitely possible. Do you have Slippery Elm bark powder? I would try that first - here's a link to our page with dosing information https://epi4dogs.com/slippery-elm/ - be sure to mix it with a little water and put on the food just before feeding (you can get it any health food store or order from WonderLabs - just be sure you get the powder not the pills). If you notice some improvement but not completely normal poop within a few days then I would start a 45 day course of Tylan antibiotic - just remember after 45 days to slowly wean off don't quit cold turkey.
As for the cost of EPI - are you using EnzymeDiane for your enzymes? They are much less expensive than the rx enzymes from the vet. Also, if you're supplementing B12 (highly recommended) you can get the B12 pills with a discount at WonderLabs - just use the code EPI4DOGS15 at checkout for a discount.
Another suggestion - you could order the Schebo test from EnzymeDiane - I think it's around $50 - it's pretty accurate at ruling out EPI but if it indicates EPI then we recommend following up with a blood test to be sure.
Sending hugs
As for the cost of EPI - are you using EnzymeDiane for your enzymes? They are much less expensive than the rx enzymes from the vet. Also, if you're supplementing B12 (highly recommended) you can get the B12 pills with a discount at WonderLabs - just use the code EPI4DOGS15 at checkout for a discount.
Another suggestion - you could order the Schebo test from EnzymeDiane - I think it's around $50 - it's pretty accurate at ruling out EPI but if it indicates EPI then we recommend following up with a blood test to be sure.
Sending hugs
Madelon, owned by DOC. DOC dx EPI 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24. DOC taught me so much and together we battled and overcame EPI, food sensitivies, environmental allergies but we lost the cancer battle. DOC was dx with hemangiosarcoma 5/2022 and crossed the rainbow bridge July 24, 2022. He is and always will be the love of my life, my soulmate, my heart dog.
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- Pet name: Tucker
- My name: Pam H.
Re: Siblings with EPI
Polly, my heart goes out to you. This is a very sad story, and you are so good to have adopted a doggy in need. It does sound like Nalla has some of the symptoms of EPI. We are all glad you're here.
My vet diagnosed Tucker without a blood draw, back in May 2019. About a year later, after joining this group, I ordered a Schebo test from Enzyme Diane. (you ARE using her enzymes, right? They cost a fraction of what the RX ones from the vet cost). Anyway, I think if you order a test ($65-ish, and very easy to complete), and if it's positive, maybe talk to your vet about starting treatment for Nalla until you can afford the TLi. It is not advised, but Tucker was treated for almost two years before I could afford the blood test.
There are many ways to save money while caring for an EPI dog---
Enzyme Diane https://enzymediane.com/
Wonderlabs Pet Factor B12 from the internet
Slippery Elm for SID.
There are probably even more ways you can save. Taste of the Wild Pacific Stream kibble is more reasonably priced than some of the other recommended foods.
I have read here, that EPI can run in families, so I hope someone has contacted the breeder.
Keep posting, you will get lots of help from this group.
Take Care---Pam & Tucker
My vet diagnosed Tucker without a blood draw, back in May 2019. About a year later, after joining this group, I ordered a Schebo test from Enzyme Diane. (you ARE using her enzymes, right? They cost a fraction of what the RX ones from the vet cost). Anyway, I think if you order a test ($65-ish, and very easy to complete), and if it's positive, maybe talk to your vet about starting treatment for Nalla until you can afford the TLi. It is not advised, but Tucker was treated for almost two years before I could afford the blood test.
There are many ways to save money while caring for an EPI dog---
Enzyme Diane https://enzymediane.com/
Wonderlabs Pet Factor B12 from the internet
Slippery Elm for SID.
There are probably even more ways you can save. Taste of the Wild Pacific Stream kibble is more reasonably priced than some of the other recommended foods.
I have read here, that EPI can run in families, so I hope someone has contacted the breeder.
Keep posting, you will get lots of help from this group.
Take Care---Pam & Tucker
Tucker was a shepherd/lab mix--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Took Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlabs B12 one capsule per day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon/ morning (to hold SID at bay). Taste of the Wild High Prairie, 1 1/2 cups/day, with a total of 4 cups of Fresh Pet. Stopped eating everything in sight, and went from 60 to 85 pounds! Tucker was my boyfriend, and my husband was OK with that. Tucker succumbed to hemangiosarcoma, but we cherished every day we had with that wonderful, beautiful boy. I will always, always miss my sweet big boy.
- Olesia711
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Re: Siblings with EPI
Hi POlly,
I too am so sorry to hear that Nalla is showing some of the same signs as Maverick.... much of what i was going to suggest has already been covered, so i won't repeat.... except to say... since money is very understandably tight at this time..... right around the holidays..... even though we strongly suggest having the TLI test run.... what you can do in the meantime is order a sample batch of enzymes from EnzymeDiane
https://enzymediane.com/product/pancrea ... -50-grams/
and give it to Nalla to see if it helps... if it does... continue to give her enzymes and then please, Please PLEASE do schedule a TLI test as soon as you can afford one .
BTW here is the link to the Schebo test kit that cannot confirm EPI.... BUT it can definitely "rule out" EPI.
https://enzymediane.com/product/schebo- ... nine-test/
Th other option is call Texas A&M Gastro Lab (TAMU) directly. Ask them if your vet is willing to only draw the blood for a TLI test, but if you ship the blood yourself (2 day pack) and you pay TAMU directly... ask them if this is feasible and how much would it cost you. Maybe this way can save you a lot of money, if feasible.
Gastrointestinal Laboratory
Texas A&M College of Veterinary Medicine & Biomedical Sciences
4474 TAMU | College Station, TX 77843-4474
Tel: 979.862.2861 | Fax: 979.862.2864
Email: gilab@cvm.tamu.edu | Web: vetmed.tamu.edu/gilab
Hours: Mon.-Fri. 8:00 AM to 5:00 PM (CT)
I too am so sorry to hear that Nalla is showing some of the same signs as Maverick.... much of what i was going to suggest has already been covered, so i won't repeat.... except to say... since money is very understandably tight at this time..... right around the holidays..... even though we strongly suggest having the TLI test run.... what you can do in the meantime is order a sample batch of enzymes from EnzymeDiane
https://enzymediane.com/product/pancrea ... -50-grams/
and give it to Nalla to see if it helps... if it does... continue to give her enzymes and then please, Please PLEASE do schedule a TLI test as soon as you can afford one .
BTW here is the link to the Schebo test kit that cannot confirm EPI.... BUT it can definitely "rule out" EPI.
https://enzymediane.com/product/schebo- ... nine-test/
Th other option is call Texas A&M Gastro Lab (TAMU) directly. Ask them if your vet is willing to only draw the blood for a TLI test, but if you ship the blood yourself (2 day pack) and you pay TAMU directly... ask them if this is feasible and how much would it cost you. Maybe this way can save you a lot of money, if feasible.
Gastrointestinal Laboratory
Texas A&M College of Veterinary Medicine & Biomedical Sciences
4474 TAMU | College Station, TX 77843-4474
Tel: 979.862.2861 | Fax: 979.862.2864
Email: gilab@cvm.tamu.edu | Web: vetmed.tamu.edu/gilab
Hours: Mon.-Fri. 8:00 AM to 5:00 PM (CT)
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........
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- My name: Jane
Re: Siblings with EPI
Hi Polly, and welcome. You've come to the right place. Hopefully some of the suggestions will be able to save you a little money. Feel free to ask any questions you might have.
Re: Siblings with EPI
Maverick's current regimen:
- 3 cups Taste of the Wild Ancient Grains (this is the 3rd food we tried, after he did not do well on a few others recommended for dogs with EPI) twice a day, mixed with 3 tsp Enzyme Diane 6x (using room temp liquid and sitting x20-30 minutes), plus B-12 supplement from Wonderlabs.
- He previously completed (several months ago) a 45 day course of Tylan for suspected SIBO (after his stool didn't improve with enzyme and trying slippery elm).
Maverick's EPI seems to be under control (for the past 2 months). . . Only to start the whole process/investigation over with his sister - on top of trying to keep up with his needs.
I appreciate all the suggestions, and kind words.
- 3 cups Taste of the Wild Ancient Grains (this is the 3rd food we tried, after he did not do well on a few others recommended for dogs with EPI) twice a day, mixed with 3 tsp Enzyme Diane 6x (using room temp liquid and sitting x20-30 minutes), plus B-12 supplement from Wonderlabs.
- He previously completed (several months ago) a 45 day course of Tylan for suspected SIBO (after his stool didn't improve with enzyme and trying slippery elm).
Maverick's EPI seems to be under control (for the past 2 months). . . Only to start the whole process/investigation over with his sister - on top of trying to keep up with his needs.
I appreciate all the suggestions, and kind words.
I'm Polly, from Wisconsin.
My male GSD, Maverick, born December 2018, was diagnosed with EPI in May 2021 (TLI 0.6 - Folate 13.1 - Cobalamin 351)
Current regimen: Enzyme Diane 6x powder, WonderLabs B-12 supplement. Also given one course of Tylan since being diagnosed.
We adopted his sister, Nalla, in June 2021. She is from the same litter, and recently started exhibiting symptoms concerning for EPI.
My male GSD, Maverick, born December 2018, was diagnosed with EPI in May 2021 (TLI 0.6 - Folate 13.1 - Cobalamin 351)
Current regimen: Enzyme Diane 6x powder, WonderLabs B-12 supplement. Also given one course of Tylan since being diagnosed.
We adopted his sister, Nalla, in June 2021. She is from the same litter, and recently started exhibiting symptoms concerning for EPI.
- Jean
- Forum Director
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- Location: South Liverpool
- Country: United Kingdom - England
- Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
- My name: Jean
Re: Siblings with EPI
well the only positve thing with this is you know what to do
One of our staff also has had litter mates with EPI
there is no definitive answer to this as to why, have you any idea if the parents or their parents might have had EPI
I remember when we got Kara tested back in 2010, and it was really expensive here in the UK , as said there is the Schebo test but you could do with testing for low b12 which the Schebo test does not take into account
Just a reminder, the cTLI test is 12 hour food fasted as is recommended for the B12 test
jXX
One of our staff also has had litter mates with EPI
there is no definitive answer to this as to why, have you any idea if the parents or their parents might have had EPI
I remember when we got Kara tested back in 2010, and it was really expensive here in the UK , as said there is the Schebo test but you could do with testing for low b12 which the Schebo test does not take into account
Just a reminder, the cTLI test is 12 hour food fasted as is recommended for the B12 test
jXX
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk
I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of
My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day
Lowest weight 39 pounds
We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules
Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM
Jeanx
I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of
My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day
Lowest weight 39 pounds
We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules
Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM
Jeanx
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- Member
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- State: Florida
- Pet name: Tucker
- My name: Pam H.
Re: Siblings with EPI
Well, I don't mean to be a rebel, and I am most certainly not a veterinarian, but the odds of Nalla having EPI seem so high, and since none of the supplements are dangerous short-term, I would absolutely try her on the regimen & see what happens. Doesn't seem like you have a choice, really.
As far as Maverick's routine goes, it sounds perfect. If he ever starts passing lots of gas, or if his poo gets soft, know that SID is likely flaring, and you need to give another course of Tylan. ALWAYS wean slowly off Tylan, or you will see runny poo again.
I just ordered a new bag of Sport Dog Elite, but I will be trying the TOTW flavor that is working for you, next time.
On the upside, it can be a huge hassle, trying to keep an EPI dog from eating another's unenzymed food, so if she has it you won't have to worry about that. AND, you are catching it early if she does.
I'm sending you a PM here, or an email.
Pam
As far as Maverick's routine goes, it sounds perfect. If he ever starts passing lots of gas, or if his poo gets soft, know that SID is likely flaring, and you need to give another course of Tylan. ALWAYS wean slowly off Tylan, or you will see runny poo again.
I just ordered a new bag of Sport Dog Elite, but I will be trying the TOTW flavor that is working for you, next time.
On the upside, it can be a huge hassle, trying to keep an EPI dog from eating another's unenzymed food, so if she has it you won't have to worry about that. AND, you are catching it early if she does.
I'm sending you a PM here, or an email.
Pam
Tucker was a shepherd/lab mix--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Took Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlabs B12 one capsule per day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon/ morning (to hold SID at bay). Taste of the Wild High Prairie, 1 1/2 cups/day, with a total of 4 cups of Fresh Pet. Stopped eating everything in sight, and went from 60 to 85 pounds! Tucker was my boyfriend, and my husband was OK with that. Tucker succumbed to hemangiosarcoma, but we cherished every day we had with that wonderful, beautiful boy. I will always, always miss my sweet big boy.
- Jean
- Forum Director
- Posts: 1707
- Location: South Liverpool
- Country: United Kingdom - England
- Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
- My name: Jean
Re: Siblings with EPI
Pam can you share that private message etc with the group so we can keep up to date
Many Thanks
Jeanx
Many Thanks
Jeanx
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk
I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of
My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day
Lowest weight 39 pounds
We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules
Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM
Jeanx
I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of
My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day
Lowest weight 39 pounds
We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules
Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM
Jeanx
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