Newly diagnosed 11-11-21

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
Olivers Mom
Member
Posts: 21
Country: United States
State: Arizona
Pet name: Oliver

Newly diagnosed 11-11-21

Post by Olivers Mom » 14 Nov 2021, 12:29

I want to start out by saying thank you so much for this forum. Prior to the diagnosis Oliver was having a classic yellow diarrhea poops, not gaining weight despite everything I’ve done, he did try to keep his energy up but I know he was getting more lethargic. I brought him to the vet where blood tests were taken, stool samples brought in, and a full assessment done. Current weight 72.5 pounds. I was shocked because he had lost approximately 20 pounds. I guess when you live beside them every single day you don’t know how much the weight loss actually is until you see it with your own eyes when they are standing on the scale. Vet started him on metronidazole immediately.

With the diagnosis pending I searched and found your forum. I want to say a huge thank you! Armed with some EPI knowledge, the diagnosis was not as shocking.

I have started Oliver on PancreVed enzymes 1 teaspoon/cup kibble of food. The bottle says 3/4 to 1 teaspoonwith each meal. In the last couple of days I found out that has not worked and thanks to your forum that amount seems to be too low. I’ve now upped the amount and today he had his first formed stool. Thanks to the forum as I would have underdosed Oliver and not know what I was doing wrong. Will it be ok to change to Diane's Enzymes once these are done?

I have injected him with his first vitamin B12 and he will have another five injections each week for a total of 6 injections. I have ordered Slippery Elm so I have it is if needed. Metronidazole course completed.

My questions are: when can I start treats and what kind of treats as he adores them so much. I have only given him his kibble and topper so that he can eat and the enzymes are palatable.

When should I start seeing some weight gain? I have noticed a huge uptick in his energy. He’s now back to running in the yard and doing his zoomies and spins with his younger brother. He’s such a ham!!

Thank you
Oliver is a sable red GSD. Tested positive for EPI on 11-11-21. Results: TLI <1, Cobalamin 170, Folate >24. Weight: 72.5 lbs. Currently taking Enzymes Diane 1tsp/cup of limited ingredient Lamb kibble (3% fiber). Cobalamin 2-12-‘22: 269, Folate: 16. Weight: 82 lbs Oral Vitamin B12 daily.

User avatar
Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 3857
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Newly diagnosed 11-11-21

Post by Olesia711 » 14 Nov 2021, 15:13

Hi Oliver's mom,

Thank you so ,much for all the nice compliments about our Forum... we appreciate it and are SOOOoooo glad we have been of some help to you.

Regarding switching over to EnzymeDiane.... you can switch over anytime, and no "acclimation" needed... just switch over 100% whenever you are ready. If stools are not optimal, then we examine one-step at-a-time what might be going on and what needs tweaking.

Glad the increased enzymes worked... but just in case those poos start going south again, i suspect that it is SID getting/or is still not in good control.
If you need anti's next go around, please have your vet prescribe tylan, not metronidazole....

Also.... chat with your vet about starting Oliver on some pre+probiotics... the probiotics of choice at this moment are:
Proviable
Visbiome
ALso, when starting with a probiotic ALWAYS start off with less than 1/2 the recommended dose and work your way up to a full dose over the course of a week or two.

Ahhh... treats... Technically we suggest no treats until the dog is stable (good poos for a month or two) and then you cautiously and in a timely manner introduce them back into the regime and watch to see if they are well tolerated or not.
Typically we avoid all commercial treats with grain in them, but rather suggest pure protein (dehydrated meats work) or i used to slice (peel) a raw sweet potato and dehydrate these peels and give these pieces as crunchy treats ... we do have a treat section on this website that you can check out for some ideas:
https://epi4dogs.com/treats/

Also... when trying to re-introduce treats.... you start off with giving a tiny bit within an hour of an enzymed meal... see how the poops fare after a few days.
If poops are good... then try giving a very tiny amount of a treat once or twice a day beyond this "one-hour" time frame around an enzymes meal.... again... watch the poos. Give this a few days and assess the poo outcome.... if all is well... then you are good to go. If the poos become a little mushy... then discontinue.

Ahhh the weight gain. That depends on the individual dog. With some you will see some gain within a few weeks/months.... and other can take a few years. IN the end a lot of times (although not always) it comes down to the food you are feeding, if it is something that "optimally" agrees with the dog.... and if the B12 is also at a good level. Another piece to the weight gain puzzle is the owner's patience.... heavens it takes a ton of patience ... for me that was the hardest part!!!!!

ALso, with the B12... please know that after the 6 weeks of shots, then you wait 30 days, give another shot and wait another 30 days an re-test the B12... to find out where the levels are at. HOpefully 600/+ .... but even if great, you and your vet will need to figure out going forward how much and how often B12 needs to be given for life to maintain a good Cobalamin (B12 level). Epi is a chronic condition and with low B12 in a chronic gastrointestinal condition you will need to maintain B12 level for life.. GOing forward some dogs will still need it weekly, others bi-weekly, some monthly and some only twice a year... it is all over the map, but it does need to be maintained.

Hope this helps!
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

User avatar
Patsy
Member
Posts: 264
Country: United Kingdom - England

Re: Newly diagnosed 11-11-21

Post by Patsy » 14 Nov 2021, 15:31

Welcome to this special forum. I’ve been around since the beginning, and the advice and comfort is unbelievable, especially since a lot of vets worldwide, have little or no experience with epi. Efforts from members are helping to raise awareness for it. So glad you’ve got the diagnosis, that is the worst part over with.
As I’m in the UK , I’ll leave medical advice to others , because our ones are different. However you will find that we no longer recommend metro as an antibiotic. Tylan is better for epi.
Re weight gain, don’t worry. The body has had been suffering on all over by the malabsorption, so the joys of food being digested will begin on the inside, the muscles, and eventually one surplus fat. Once you see improved poop, you know that they are recovering.
Treats are a problem. Some dogs like ice cubes, or frozen cubes of enzymed food. Or just use them within half an hour of a meal. I’m sure other folk have more ideas.
So please he is feeling happy.
Springer spaniel Marti had Epi, PLE , MMM just to confuse me. She lived till 12yrs, chubby and happy despite eight years of epi.
Capsule enzymes suited her best. B12 supplements made her into a new dog!
After a cocker with PLN kidney disease, I now have two healthy rescues, a lively, suicidal , small ginger terrier, adopted with pneumonia, and gum disease needing nearly all his teeth out, and a fluffy grey toy poodle/terrier from Greece.

Jane&Clyde
Member
Posts: 157
Country: United States
Pet name: Clyde
My name: Jane

Re: Newly diagnosed 11-11-21

Post by Jane&Clyde » 14 Nov 2021, 16:32

Hello and welcome!

I don't have anything to add at this point since you have read so much and gotten great advice already. I'm glad you found this place to help you on your EPI journey.

Olivers Mom
Member
Posts: 21
Country: United States
State: Arizona
Pet name: Oliver

Re: Newly diagnosed 11-11-21

Post by Olivers Mom » 14 Nov 2021, 20:14

Thank you for the replies and amazing advice. I know I’ll be on this forum daily, probably a few times a day, as there’s much to learn. I’m gathering that patience is indeed something I will need to practice. I think we all want instant results (at least I do LOL). Oliver seems to be having his best day in a long time today. He’s back to some of his antics. Even “singing” (howling but hey, semantics) during a movie! Thank you for this wonderful forum and support.
Oliver is a sable red GSD. Tested positive for EPI on 11-11-21. Results: TLI <1, Cobalamin 170, Folate >24. Weight: 72.5 lbs. Currently taking Enzymes Diane 1tsp/cup of limited ingredient Lamb kibble (3% fiber). Cobalamin 2-12-‘22: 269, Folate: 16. Weight: 82 lbs Oral Vitamin B12 daily.

User avatar
Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 3857
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Newly diagnosed 11-11-21

Post by Olesia711 » 14 Nov 2021, 22:45

glad to hear that Oliver had a very good day..... WAHOO! Just know that in the beginning with EPI a lot of times it is 2 steps forward and 1 step backwards... what you want to watch for is overall progress in the right direction.... and please feel free to ask any thing you have questions about and we will do our best to help you out.

Keep us posted!
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

User avatar
Jean
Forum Director
Posts: 1707
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: Newly diagnosed 11-11-21

Post by Jean » 15 Nov 2021, 05:20

welcome from Liverpool UK

We started 2010 and my Kara was 39 pounds at her lowest , she was a mess, but my vet said we werent losing her on his watch , she was referred to the Small animal hospital which is part of Liverpoool University and things started to improve when I met these wonderful people on the forum, and some personal friends such as Patsy has meant the world to me, Olesia I class as one of my closest friends

I agree wholehearedly about Metro it has side effects and I for one as a human am allergic to it, Enzyme Diane is brilliant and she is very approachable which helps when you are dealing with a person as against some faceless company.

Just so you know, the weight etc doesnt always come on quickly the organs etc need to sort themselves out first, but it looks like you have a map now for your journey, and it can be up and down but we are here for you.

Jxxx
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

Barb
Staff
Posts: 918
Country: United States
State: New Jersey

Re: Newly diagnosed 11-11-21

Post by Barb » 15 Nov 2021, 14:20

A warm welcome to you and Oliver! It sounds like you've hit the sweet spot in a lot of areas for Oliver. So glad he is improving. You have expressed the sentiments for most of us....we are all so grateful for this Forum and we want our pups to feel good again. You are on your way there.

One thing that helped us enormously, especially in the beginning stage, was keeping a log/journal. It literally saved our sanity. Keep a record of everything you give Oliver, the amounts, and the resulting poos. This will show you what is working and what needs to be adjusted. There is something about seeing it in writing that helps you to notice patterns you might not have seen if you had not seen it written down.

Our Kolby was a slow gainer. Many dogs put weight on right away. He stopped losing, which was a big plus, but he gained only a half pound a month at first. It took him over a year to get back to his target weight, but it was slow and steady. I will also mention that when we finally got his B12 levels up, he really filled out. After giving injections of B12 w e maintained his weight with Pet Factor from Wonderlabs.

We also had no problem switching to Enzyme Diane's enzymes. I was very nervous because Kolby reacted to everything, but he switched without any problems whatsoever.

We are very glad Oliver is doing well......singing already, yes! And up to his old antics.

Let us know how he does and ask any other questions you think of.

Barb

User avatar
Jean
Forum Director
Posts: 1707
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: Newly diagnosed 11-11-21

Post by Jean » 15 Nov 2021, 16:35

and Barb is a VERY close friend

we all are

just join the clan
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

User avatar
wsantschi
Member
Posts: 15
Location: Cedar Park
Country: United States
State: Texas
Pet name: Lucy
My name: Bill

Re: Newly diagnosed 11-11-21

Post by wsantschi » 16 Nov 2021, 15:10

Hi Oliver's Mom,
So sorry to hear about your baby's EPI...but, it is treatable and he will get better. My Lucy was diagnosed 9/10/21 and has already made great strides and, dare i say, seems like she is stabilizing. I would definitely suggest going with EnzymeDiane. Great product, not off-the-charts expensive and Diane is always willing to help out and coach.

Listen to Olesia, Diane and some of the incredible folks on this site. They have forgotten more about EPI than most vets will ever know. They live and breathe it.

Suggestion on the treats: Lucy eats Purina Pro Plan Sensitive Stomach and Skin. We'll take about and extra 1/4 cup with 1/4 tsp of the enzymes, mix with her midday meal then put aside in a small container. Then that evening we can just roll up into a couple little balls and voila, she has treats!

Hope this helps
Cheers!
Bill

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 229 guests