Newly diagnosed 11-11-21

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
Olivers Mom
Member
Posts: 21
Country: United States
State: Arizona
Pet name: Oliver

Re: Newly diagnosed 11-11-21

Post by Olivers Mom » 16 Nov 2021, 23:32

Again thank you so much for all the replies and advice.

As one of you posted, it is one step forward and two steps back sometimes. Oliver‘s poos 💩 are not improving as I was hoping. My vet has ordered Tylosin twice a day for 30 days. He’s allowing me to determine a lot of the care. I made him aware of this forum and it seems he’s giving me more independence in treating Oliver. I am so thankful that my Vet is on board with all your suggestions.

I am waiting for the slippery elm and Proviable to arrive any day now.

My question is: do I start one at a time? I’m thinking I would do the tylosin first and then go to the proviable and then the slippery elm if needed. If someone has a different sequence please let me know .

He’s eating decent meals but I have had to switch his topper to chicken breast pieces. Also, I’ve had to decrease the enzymes as he was gagging, snorting, retching clear fluid and then refusing to eat. Once I decreased the enzymes a bit, he’s tolerating his meals. I don’t give him any treats. We are not at the treat stage yet, but hopefully will get there eventually. He still has good energy.

I have also started a log and writing everything down. I don’t want start a whole lot of things at the same time, just one thing and see how it goes. I have to remind myself that Rome wasn’t built in a day….
Oliver is a sable red GSD. Tested positive for EPI on 11-11-21. Results: TLI <1, Cobalamin 170, Folate >24. Weight: 72.5 lbs. Currently taking Enzymes Diane 1tsp/cup of limited ingredient Lamb kibble (3% fiber). Cobalamin 2-12-‘22: 269, Folate: 16. Weight: 82 lbs Oral Vitamin B12 daily.

Tuckaboo Pam
Member
Posts: 1345
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: Newly diagnosed 11-11-21

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 22 Nov 2021, 07:36

Hi, Oliver's Mom!

Sorry, just seeing this. The Tylan treatment should last 45 days, and then Oliver should be slowly weaned off it. Here is the dosing chart---

https://epi4dogs.com/antibiotics/

I am impressed that your vet is allowing for your input!

I am sending an email, in case you don't check back here.

Take Care---Pam
Tucker was a shepherd/lab mix--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Took Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlabs B12 one capsule per day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon/ morning (to hold SID at bay). Taste of the Wild High Prairie, 1 1/2 cups/day, with a total of 4 cups of Fresh Pet. Stopped eating everything in sight, and went from 60 to 85 pounds! Tucker was my boyfriend, and my husband was OK with that. Tucker succumbed to hemangiosarcoma, but we cherished every day we had with that wonderful, beautiful boy. I will always, always miss my sweet big boy.

Olivers Mom
Member
Posts: 21
Country: United States
State: Arizona
Pet name: Oliver

Re: Newly diagnosed 11-11-21

Post by Olivers Mom » 22 Nov 2021, 21:31

Hi Pam, I did receive your reply. Thank you so much. I did find the dosing chart in the forum info section. This forum has been my lifesaver! I will give the tylosin to him for 45 days. He is slowly but surely getting better. Stools are a little bit more firm but it’s only been just a week with the tylosin. In regards to my vet, he’s actually giving me full reign. I guess it helps that I’m a nurse and bullheaded lol. He was quite impressed with the EPI knowledge I have (only because I found this forum prior to the definitive diagnosis). My vet also listens and educates wonderfully. Oliver has more good days than bad lately.

I’m so blessed to have this beautiful German Shepherd who is teaching me patience.

Hugs,
Kaelen aka Oliver’s mom
Oliver is a sable red GSD. Tested positive for EPI on 11-11-21. Results: TLI <1, Cobalamin 170, Folate >24. Weight: 72.5 lbs. Currently taking Enzymes Diane 1tsp/cup of limited ingredient Lamb kibble (3% fiber). Cobalamin 2-12-‘22: 269, Folate: 16. Weight: 82 lbs Oral Vitamin B12 daily.

Tuckaboo Pam
Member
Posts: 1345
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: Newly diagnosed 11-11-21

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 23 Nov 2021, 10:47

Hi Kaelen---

About the B12---I have heard a variety of different numbers. Tucker's cobalamin was 666, and I supplement him with Wonderlabs anyway, as was advised by somebody on staff. I have gotten so much help from so many people over the past 2+ years, I can't begin to remember who said what! His poo gets softer when I try and drop the B12, and he starts eating poop again, so I just figure that's why. It's my understanding if he doesn't need it, he'll tinkle it out. Your number was way lower, so I imagine the shots are exactly what you need.

I'm sure you are watching Oliver when he goes outside. There is a plant in my yard that, when Tucker eats it, seems to soften his poo. So be careful of things he may find.

Take Care---Pam
Tucker was a shepherd/lab mix--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Took Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlabs B12 one capsule per day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon/ morning (to hold SID at bay). Taste of the Wild High Prairie, 1 1/2 cups/day, with a total of 4 cups of Fresh Pet. Stopped eating everything in sight, and went from 60 to 85 pounds! Tucker was my boyfriend, and my husband was OK with that. Tucker succumbed to hemangiosarcoma, but we cherished every day we had with that wonderful, beautiful boy. I will always, always miss my sweet big boy.

Olivers Mom
Member
Posts: 21
Country: United States
State: Arizona
Pet name: Oliver

Re: Newly diagnosed 11-11-21

Post by Olivers Mom » 23 Nov 2021, 11:10

Hi Pam,
I have now started calling myself the Poop Princess. Lol. Every time Oliver 💩s, I’m running to the spot to assess. I think I’ve even done a couple happy dances since poo is brown with a touch of tan, mostly formed but soft. At least I’m now able to pick it up in one pile with the scooper. With the diarrhea, that was impossible. He’s having a bowel movement twice daily. No more 💩 in the middle of the night.

Once his course of B12 injections are complete, I’ll do one 30 days after then have him rechecked 30 days from that. Olesia suggested this protocol. I’ll be starting the proviable later this week at a tiny dose and work up to full dose over 1-2 weeks.

When should I start Slippery Elm?

Thanks for your help
Kaelen
Oliver is a sable red GSD. Tested positive for EPI on 11-11-21. Results: TLI <1, Cobalamin 170, Folate >24. Weight: 72.5 lbs. Currently taking Enzymes Diane 1tsp/cup of limited ingredient Lamb kibble (3% fiber). Cobalamin 2-12-‘22: 269, Folate: 16. Weight: 82 lbs Oral Vitamin B12 daily.

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Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 3858
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Newly diagnosed 11-11-21

Post by Olesia711 » 23 Nov 2021, 12:28

Since Oliver's poo is coming along nicely AND since you have him on Tylan and now slowly starting the Proviable (good job!!!) ... just keep the slippery elm on reserve.... for now.

There are a variety of situations where we use SLippery Elm:

Often if AFTER you try all the recommendations and the poo is still sloppy... we try slippery elm to see if that improves the poo... if it does, it usually (although not always) suggests that the food is not exactly optimal.... and a food change may be in your dog's diet future.

However... sometimes we "try" Slippery Elm first in the beginning to see if the SLippery Elm will take care of things and we won't have to resort to Tylan...

Most often though, the majority of use keep a stash of SLippery Elm on hand because when caring for an EPI dog.... no matter how stable they become under good management... it seems that sooner or later, they will have a set back... and this is where many of us just reach for a short course of SLippery Elm and we are able to get SID back under good control. and this also helps us many times avoid having to do a course of Tylan antibiotic. This doesn't work always but often enough to definitely keep Slippery ELm on hand!

Then there are others who, no matter what they do/try.... nothing produces consistent good/normal poo unless they keep their dog on a little bit of maintenance amount of slippery elm daily.

SOOOOOOOOOOOooo as you can see, it really depends on the situation how and why you will use SLippery Elm. This is all decided on a case by case situation.

For Oliver... you are doing a great job AND seeing good results... so keep on what you are doing....no need to use the slippery elm just yet, but do keep it on hand.
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

Olivers Mom
Member
Posts: 21
Country: United States
State: Arizona
Pet name: Oliver

Re: Newly diagnosed 11-11-21

Post by Olivers Mom » 23 Nov 2021, 21:28

Thank you for your amazing advice! I don’t know what I’d do without all of you.

Oliver appreciates it too. I know he feels better as he is zooming and spinning again. I forgot just how much energy he used to have. He is slowly getting his vim n vigor back. One day at a time.

I’ve met a fellow mom who’s pup had EPI. She was on this site. Incidentally/ironically, she has Oliver’s half brother (they share same sires). It’s amazing how people come into our lives at the time we need it most. Her boy doesn’t have EPI (I’m so happy) but her previous dog did.

Thank you again
Kaelen
Oliver is a sable red GSD. Tested positive for EPI on 11-11-21. Results: TLI <1, Cobalamin 170, Folate >24. Weight: 72.5 lbs. Currently taking Enzymes Diane 1tsp/cup of limited ingredient Lamb kibble (3% fiber). Cobalamin 2-12-‘22: 269, Folate: 16. Weight: 82 lbs Oral Vitamin B12 daily.

User avatar
Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 3858
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Newly diagnosed 11-11-21

Post by Olesia711 » 23 Nov 2021, 22:39

if Oliver is doing zoomie.... the boy is definitely doing better/feeling good!!!!!!!! And that is a testament to you mom, for doing a wonderful job getting his EPI under good control! It just all takes time, but what you are doing is working :)

You would not believe all the many friendships that have been established thru EPI connections. People helping one another, and then friendships evolve. There are folks here who have long since lost their EPI companion but continue to stay in touch. Some of us have even met, taken vacations and/or trips together. EPI is kind of a unique but kind "family".
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

Olivers Mom
Member
Posts: 21
Country: United States
State: Arizona
Pet name: Oliver

Re: Newly diagnosed 11-11-21

Post by Olivers Mom » 23 Nov 2021, 23:35

Thank you! And this is one family I’m so proud to be part of.
I Hope, in time, that I can offer support to new members just as support as been given to me. I’d definitely be lost without this forum.

Kaelen
Oliver is a sable red GSD. Tested positive for EPI on 11-11-21. Results: TLI <1, Cobalamin 170, Folate >24. Weight: 72.5 lbs. Currently taking Enzymes Diane 1tsp/cup of limited ingredient Lamb kibble (3% fiber). Cobalamin 2-12-‘22: 269, Folate: 16. Weight: 82 lbs Oral Vitamin B12 daily.

Tuckaboo Pam
Member
Posts: 1345
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: Newly diagnosed 11-11-21

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 24 Nov 2021, 16:57

Great job, Kaelen!

While you may not feel comfortable expressing your gratitude for good dog poo at Thanksgiving dinner tomorrow, I am sure it will be on your mind ;). It sounds like you are on the road to stabilization.

Recently, Tucker became a dog fart machine, again, and the thing that has cleared him up is slippery elm. I also hold onto it for use only when necessary, and Oh My Goodness, was it ever necessary!

Take Care---Pam
Tucker was a shepherd/lab mix--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Took Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlabs B12 one capsule per day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon/ morning (to hold SID at bay). Taste of the Wild High Prairie, 1 1/2 cups/day, with a total of 4 cups of Fresh Pet. Stopped eating everything in sight, and went from 60 to 85 pounds! Tucker was my boyfriend, and my husband was OK with that. Tucker succumbed to hemangiosarcoma, but we cherished every day we had with that wonderful, beautiful boy. I will always, always miss my sweet big boy.

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