Soft stool on enzymes

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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aalex
Member
Posts: 7
Country: United States
State: Texas
Pet name: Nova
My name: Ali

Soft stool on enzymes

Post by aalex » 06 Dec 2021, 13:06

My 2 year old husky was diagnosed with EPI about 6 months ago and has been on enzymes ever since. She has been doing really well on her enzymes and we keep her on a lower fat diet. In the last few days she’s been starting to have very soft stools and flatulence just like before she was on enzymes. I’m at a loss and am going to try to get an appointment with our vet, but wanted to see if anyone else has had any experiences like this. Thanks!

Jane&Clyde
Member
Posts: 124
Country: United States
Pet name: Clyde
My name: Jane

Re: Soft stool on enzymes

Post by Jane&Clyde » 06 Dec 2021, 16:47

Hi, Ali, and welcome to you and Nova.

What you are describing is common. The most likely culprit is SID(small intestine dysbiosis). Basically, the bacteria in the digestive system gets out of balance. All dogs withe EPI have SID to some degree, and sometimes it flares up and causes problems.

The way we treat SID is:
1. Add a prebiotic such as slippery elm bark powder. Start with 1/2 the recommended dose for Nova's weight. Wait 3=4 days to see the results. If this doesn't work, increase to the full dose. If this still doesn't work, then...
2. Add a pre/probiotic. The ones we currently recommend are Visbiome and Proviable. Start with less than half the dose and slowly work up to the full dose over 1-2 weeks. Pre/probiotics can take several weeks to show results. If this doesn't work or the stools get really bad, then...
3. Ask your vet for a prescription for the antibiotic Tylan, 45 days twice a day, then slowly wean off. Please do not let your vet prescribe Metronidazole.

Enzymes play a very important role. The amount of enzymes that should be given is 1 teaspoon per cup of dry kibble (1/2 - 3/4 teaspoon for wet food). The enzymes should be mixed with the food and a little room temperature to lukewarm water, then left to sit for 20-30 minutes before serving. This helps to avoid mouth sores from the enzymes. Most of us use enzymes from EnzymeDiane.com. Her 6X enzymes are the most similar to prescription enzymes, and their dosage is the same. They are a lot cheaper than the prescription enzymes.

Diet is also a key part in treating EPI and controlling SID. I'm curious about why Nova is on a low-fat diet. Does she have chronic pancreatitis? If so, then a low-fat diet is appropriate. If EPI is the only issue, then a low-fiber diet is what is needed, not low-fat. Most EPI dogs do best on a diet, assuming you feed dry kibble, that is grain-free, has 4% fiber or less, has minimal to low amount of peas, and avoids chicken as much as possible. We can recommend foods, but the ones we most commonly recommend are not suitable if she needs a low-fat diet.

Vitamin B12 is also important. Dogs with EPI need their B12 (Cobalamin) to be in the mid 500s to 600 or so. Over 80% of EPI dogs need supplementation. What we recommend is either shots from the vet or Wonderlabs Pet Factor B12 with Intrinsic Factor. The Wonderlabs product is a slightly different form of B12 than most oral B12, plus it has intrinsic factor. Somehow, this makes this product more effective than other B12 supplements.

One thing we find useful is to keep a daily log of what was given and what the poop was like. Remember to only make one change at a time.

I hope you find this useful. Feel free to ask any questions that you may have.

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Olesia711
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Posts: 2441
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Soft stool on enzymes

Post by Olesia711 » 06 Dec 2021, 19:12

Hi Ali,
SO what you are seeing is a SID flareup..... this is very common and almost always happens to everyone sooner or later and sometimes multiple times.... i short, you just have to get it under better control. At this time, we don't know how to cure SID, just keep it under good control

Jane gave you a great check list of what to do and she covered all the points nicely. (thanks Jane!)

Just share with your vet what we are recommending, and if you want, check out the SID/SIBO tab... https://epi4dogs.com/sidsibo-management/
all our recommendations follow Texas A&M Gastrointestinal Lab. As a matter of fact, if your vet is interested, he/she can check out the TAMU research regarding SID that we have on our website.
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

aalex
Member
Posts: 7
Country: United States
State: Texas
Pet name: Nova
My name: Ali

Re: Soft stool on enzymes

Post by aalex » 08 Dec 2021, 13:26

Hi Jane,

Thanks for all of the information! She’s already doing much better. I guess when I said low fat diet I needed to be more specific. She is currently on the hill science for sensitive stomach as recommended by her vet. As far as treats go, we’re sticking to things with lower fat and fiber contents. She gets 4 cups, 2 times per day with 2tsp of enzymes mixed and let it sit for 30 minutes. When we first started her, we didn’t let them sit very long and quickly learned about the issues with mouth sores. We have gotten into a good rhythm with her EPI and so far she hasn’t had any other complications, so it’s very helpful to know about SID! I do wonder if you have any recommendations for treats? I’ve been trying to find ones that are good for dogs with EPI but have had some trouble. She does good with some different dog friendly fruits and vegetables but would like to have more options too.

Thanks!

Jane&Clyde
Member
Posts: 124
Country: United States
Pet name: Clyde
My name: Jane

Re: Soft stool on enzymes

Post by Jane&Clyde » 08 Dec 2021, 18:06

I'm glad Nova is doing better. Did I read correctly that you are giving her 8 cups of food per day? That's a lot! Giving Nova less food and more enzymes (1 tsp per cup) would allow her digestive system to work more efficiently. She would absorb more nutrients from each cup of food and would produce less poop. Less food also helps to avoid loose stools. We find that giving less food at a time and more frequent meals (3-4 per day) helps, too. I would suggest trying 2 cups 3x per day, giving 2 tsp enzymes per meal. You will probably be able to even reduce the amount of food to less than that.

Have you checked out the poop chart that is linked at the bottom of the page under EPI Quick Links? Dogs with EPI should have at least a #3 poop, and often can achieve a 2.

As for treats, we find that the ones least likely to cause problems, assuming they are given in reasonable amounts, ere proteins, avoiding cookie or biscuit types. My Clyde gets a few pieces of freeze dried beef or freeze dried beef liver every day, and he does fine. It also helps to give the treats within an hour of a meal with enzymes.

aalex
Member
Posts: 7
Country: United States
State: Texas
Pet name: Nova
My name: Ali

Re: Soft stool on enzymes

Post by aalex » 08 Dec 2021, 19:15

You didn’t read wrong, I wrote wrong! 2 cups, 2x per day for a total of 4 cups/day with 2tsp of enzymes per meal. I’ve seen the poop chart, Nova tends to fall at a 2 or 3. Thanks for the treat recommendations!

Jane&Clyde
Member
Posts: 124
Country: United States
Pet name: Clyde
My name: Jane

Re: Soft stool on enzymes

Post by Jane&Clyde » 08 Dec 2021, 19:26

Whew! I am SO glad that was just a typo! LOL

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