B12 Dosage

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 3857
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: B12 Dosage

Post by Olesia711 » 06 Jan 2022, 23:32

yes... you really need to try to remember to do only one change at a time... but... it is hard... i know i messed up few times over the course of the years that my gal had EPI and i know others have... sometimes its easy to say, but not always easy to do................

I honestly don't know if stopping the omeprazole could change the chemical imbalance.... but... without really knowing ... it may be a possibility since i do know that the secondary bile functionality in the EPI dog does not work as effectively as it should... so maybe that can alter the gut flora to the degree that it can trigger SID to be out of control... or.... maybe the opposite happens... i just don't know. What i do know is that SID (dysbiosis) is present in ALL dogs with EPI to one degree or another.... no matter what the Folate score is... but 24 is high and even thou they no longer use the Folate score to determine if there is SID in an EPI dog (since we now know they all have it ) 24 is on the high side, so yes it does indicate out of control SID.

If you can incorporate it as "one change" at the moment..... yes i would increase the enzymes to 1 level tsp per cup.... and since you are no longer giving the omeprazole, but the stools are rather large.... see if this little amount of extra enzymes appear to help improve the volume of the stools.

Sometimes when the volume of the stools appears to be a little too much... but the color is good.... sometimes that appears to indicate that the carbohydrate level is a little too high for that particular dog's gut flora. HOWEVER, that being said, your dog is on a hydrolyzed diet so you are kind of stuck not having the liberty of trying a bunch of different foods to find one that maybe better suits your dog's EPI condition.... i was in a similar position with my Izzy when she developed Diabetes i was able to play around a with her food until i found one that agreed with both the diabetic and the EPI condition.... BUT..... when she poo'd larger than necessary volumes of poo.... i discovered that by adding a pinch more enzymes, it compensated for the "too many carbs" and kept her EPI and SID in better control. So...........since you can't really change foods..... by increasing the enzymes to 1 tsp now that you are not giving Omeprazole might also help with a possible too much carbohydrate overload... and i suspect the poos will be better.

After you try upping the enzymes... give it a week (and take notes) record if the increased enzymes are helping. Once this is done.... THEN YES!!!!! please do consider adding Visbiome (or Proviable) as a probiotic to your dog's regimen. Just know that it would be best when adding a probiotic to their regimen to start out with less than 1/2 the recommended dose and work your way up to the full recommended dose of the probiotic over the course of a week or two.... this little trick helps alleviate possible diarrhea that many dogs experience when first placed on a probiotic.... and loose stools are the last thing an EPI parent wants to deal with ............

It sounds like you have a great vet and is giving you some really good recommendations!
Keep up the great work and please keep us posted.
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

afairbairn
Member
Posts: 32
Country: United States
State: Colorado
Pet name: Hana
My name: Andy

Re: B12 Dosage

Post by afairbairn » 15 Jan 2022, 11:09

Heres an update and a question at the end:

Hana lost a few pounds thru all this but seems to be stabilizing. We have added a little more food into her diet while we figure out these other issues. We are currently playing around with the enzyme level and trying to get that dialed in. Poo seems to be generally ok. The number of times per day has been varying between 4-5 and the diameter is still a little bigger then I would think. But overall I think we are going in the right direction which is good.

Now for the new question. I was reading on a Facebook page about giving b12 and slippery elm at the same time. It seemed to think that wasn't the best way to do it as the SE can block the b12 absorption. With out being an expert, it kind of makes sense? So of course we have been giving SE in two meals a day (breakfast and dinner) along with 1 tablet of b12 at the same meals. I'm wondering if that may be part of the issue that when we stopped the shots the b12 pills weren't being fully absorbed? I just reread the instructions for the b12 pills and they are supposed to go in the same meal once per day instead of twice per day. So that's an easy fix to handle. It seems like maybe we should keep the SE in the morning and night meals and move the b12 to both pills at lunch?
Hana is a 1 year old golden doodle who was recently diagnosed with EPI on top of Myasthenia Gravis and Megaesophogus.

Tuckaboo Pam
Member
Posts: 1345
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: B12 Dosage

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 15 Jan 2022, 12:42

Andy, I don't believe slippery elm HAS to be given at mealtime. For humans, directions say take it two hours before, or after, taking other drugs. I'd do that, give the B12 at meal time & the slippery elm outside of that. I don't think you have to worry about the SE being un-enzymed.

Glad the weight is coming back. OMGoodness, Tucker poops 10 times, some days, his poop is softer than I wish it was, & the diameter is also a little wide. I'm sure I could play with what he ingests, and you may want to do that, but after what we were going through three years ago, I'm OK with a little imperfection. Just write down any changes you make.

I suspect turkey wing broth may be the culprit with my pup, but since he's a big dog, and it's so good for his bones, I'm sticking with it. He has other parts besides a pancreas!

This is just what I think---Pam
Tucker was a shepherd/lab mix--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Took Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlabs B12 one capsule per day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon/ morning (to hold SID at bay). Taste of the Wild High Prairie, 1 1/2 cups/day, with a total of 4 cups of Fresh Pet. Stopped eating everything in sight, and went from 60 to 85 pounds! Tucker was my boyfriend, and my husband was OK with that. Tucker succumbed to hemangiosarcoma, but we cherished every day we had with that wonderful, beautiful boy. I will always, always miss my sweet big boy.

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