New EPI Diagnosis - Help!

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
JRussell
Member
Posts: 8
Country: United States
State: Maryland
Pet name: Howie
My name: Jamie

Re: New EPI Diagnosis - Help!

Post by JRussell » 23 Dec 2021, 11:54

The vet did do some scrapings and ended up putting him on some antibiotics for it. The scabs do seem to be healing, so maybe it was just a reaction from not getting the proper nutrition over the last few weeks? I'm not sure.

Over the last few days I have been experimenting with his food and incubation time as it seems the enzymes were causing him some mouth pain. This morning I let the enzymes incubate for 40min, fed him on a paper plate (for some reason he seems to eat it better on a plate than a bowl), and topped with parmesan cheese and he ate the whole meal! I can already tell he is starting to feel better because he is actually playing again!

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jilbert57
Staff
Posts: 1455
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: New EPI Diagnosis - Help!

Post by jilbert57 » 23 Dec 2021, 13:08

Great update!
Hope things continue to improve.

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 6 and Sadie is 8months.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

Tuckaboo Pam
Member
Posts: 1066
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: New EPI Diagnosis - Help!

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 23 Dec 2021, 19:17

Jamie, this can be a game of hit & miss, or whack-a-mole, sometimes. I'm glad you've figured out a way to get Howie to eat!
Tucker is a shepherd/lab mix; he has tested positive on the ScheBo test for EPI, as well as the fasting TLI. Results--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Currently taking Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlabs B12 one capsule per day, two capsules slippery elm/evening, 1 Proviable capsule/day, and Tylan 1/32 teaspoon/ morning (to hold SID at bay). Sport Dog Elite, herding dogs 4 cups/day. No more poop eating, has gone from 60 to 80 pounds, and he is a happy member of the family, though a bit of a stinker, if you ask the other dogs. Tucker is my boyfriend, and my husband is OK with that.

JRussell
Member
Posts: 8
Country: United States
State: Maryland
Pet name: Howie
My name: Jamie

Re: New EPI Diagnosis - Help!

Post by JRussell » 24 Dec 2021, 21:59

I’m back with another question! Is it normal to see an increase in thirst after starting enzymes? Howie has been drinking a lot more than usual the past few days and actually woke us up 3 times last night to go outside to pee when he can usually easily make it through the night. Just wanted to see if this is normal when first starting enzymes?

Thanks!!

Tuckaboo Pam
Member
Posts: 1066
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: New EPI Diagnosis - Help!

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 26 Dec 2021, 08:33

DEFINITELY, and what goes in, must come out!---P
Tucker is a shepherd/lab mix; he has tested positive on the ScheBo test for EPI, as well as the fasting TLI. Results--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Currently taking Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlabs B12 one capsule per day, two capsules slippery elm/evening, 1 Proviable capsule/day, and Tylan 1/32 teaspoon/ morning (to hold SID at bay). Sport Dog Elite, herding dogs 4 cups/day. No more poop eating, has gone from 60 to 80 pounds, and he is a happy member of the family, though a bit of a stinker, if you ask the other dogs. Tucker is my boyfriend, and my husband is OK with that.

JRussell
Member
Posts: 8
Country: United States
State: Maryland
Pet name: Howie
My name: Jamie

Re: New EPI Diagnosis - Help!

Post by JRussell » 18 Jan 2022, 17:18

I'm back with more questions! After a recent hospitalization at the emergency vet for severe gastroenteritis from suspected dietary indiscretion (I still have no idea what he could have gotten into), Howie is back to his rambunctious self! I would say his poops are most often between a 3 and 4 on the chart. In the mornings, sometimes we can get a 2. Frequency is wayyy down to only 2-3 times a day, which is a HUGE improvement from 10+ times a day prior to his diagnosis. It is still a yellow/gray in color most days. Not sure if that will always be the case with EPI dogs, or if I still do not have the right balance of enzymes/supplements? I am currently feeding him 3 meals a day...3/4 cup of food with about 3/4 teaspoon of enzymes and a proviable capsule at night. He also is on shot 4 of 6 of his weekly b-12.

I have noticed that he seems to have some acid reflux at times...wet burps, regurgitation, belly rumbles, but overall it doesn't seem to bother him. I mentioned the acid reflux to my vet and that's when she suggested 3 meals a day. I did buy some slippery elm, but since he is already on proviable I wasn't sure how much slippery elm to feed him? I didn't want to overdo it on the prebiotic/probiotics. He's back up to almost 26lbs which is a good weight for him and looks overall way healthier and definitely happier! I guess I'm just concerned that there could be SID brewing since he has some acid reflux and his poop could be a little better? I don't want to miss the signs of SID and let it get out of control if that is in fact what it is! Poor guy has already been so sick in his 10 months, that I want to do everything I can to avoid him feeling that bad again if I can help it.

Thanks in advance!
Jamie

Jane&Clyde
Member
Posts: 124
Country: United States
Pet name: Clyde
My name: Jane

Re: New EPI Diagnosis - Help!

Post by Jane&Clyde » 18 Jan 2022, 18:42

Jamie, I'm so sorry that Howie got sick, but I'm glad he's back to his old self.

Slippery elm can be given with Proviable. If you want to try it, start with less than 1/8 teaspoon and work up to no more than 1/4 teaspoon twice a day as tolerated. Always give slippery elm with a little liquid. I mix it with the enzymes and water when preparing Clyde's food. It might be a good idea to give it at a meal where Proviable isn't given. Maybe give the Proviable at the middle meal and slippery elm at the other two.

HOWEVER, my first guess as to why Howie has never been able to achieve perfect poop is that something in his food isn't quite agreeing with him. This can cause exactly what you are describing. What are you feeding him?

Tuckaboo Pam
Member
Posts: 1066
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: New EPI Diagnosis - Help!

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 18 Jan 2022, 19:11

Hi Jamie. I'm thinking SID. Slippery elm & proviable can help, but sometimes a dog needs the antibiotic, Tylan. https://epi4dogs.com/sidsibo-in-brief/

If the slippery elm doesn't start working soon, maybe see if your vet will give you some Tylan. Do not agree to another antibiotic called metronidazole, as that one can cause long term issues.

This will address the rumbling tummy, but the color of the poop is curious. What color is the food?

---Pam
Tucker is a shepherd/lab mix; he has tested positive on the ScheBo test for EPI, as well as the fasting TLI. Results--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Currently taking Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlabs B12 one capsule per day, two capsules slippery elm/evening, 1 Proviable capsule/day, and Tylan 1/32 teaspoon/ morning (to hold SID at bay). Sport Dog Elite, herding dogs 4 cups/day. No more poop eating, has gone from 60 to 80 pounds, and he is a happy member of the family, though a bit of a stinker, if you ask the other dogs. Tucker is my boyfriend, and my husband is OK with that.

JRussell
Member
Posts: 8
Country: United States
State: Maryland
Pet name: Howie
My name: Jamie

Re: New EPI Diagnosis - Help!

Post by JRussell » 18 Jan 2022, 19:50

He is currently on Hill's Prescription Diet Digestive Care i/D, which is basically prescription chicken and rice, as my vet recommended a low fat food. I've read that chicken can give them yellowish poop, so I'm wondering if that is the cause. The food is also lighter in color. It sounds like once dogs are getting the enzymes, the poop generally should return to a normal brown color? It's odd because the inside is yellow, but the outside is a grayish color. The looser it is the more yellow/gray it is.

I really appreciate the advice! I will start back up on the slippery elm and see if there is improvement in the acid reflux. I've realized it is kind of like a science experiment until you figure out the right combination that works best for your dog!

Jane&Clyde
Member
Posts: 124
Country: United States
Pet name: Clyde
My name: Jane

Re: New EPI Diagnosis - Help!

Post by Jane&Clyde » 18 Jan 2022, 20:27

Please read the whole post. I edited it at the bottom.

I am 99% certain that most of the loose stools is being caused by the food that you are feeding. Chicken and rice(and grains in general) are two of the most likely foods to cause soft stools in dogs with EPI. If Howie doesn't have pancreatitis or another condition along with the EPI, he doesn't need a low fat diet or prescription food. I normally don't like to tell people to go against their vet's advice, but in this case, I recommend a food change unless Howie has something else in addition to the EPI. Please refer back to my first response to you in this thread to see what to look for in food and get a couple of ideas for foods to try. A food change may or may not impact the acid reflux.

Edited to add: A low fat diet may have been prescribed for the gastroenteritis. Face palm! Sorry. However, after he is completely over it, I would still suggest a food change. In the meantime, I would suggest increasing the enzymes to a bit over the recommended amount...maybe increase by 1/8 to 1/4 teaspoon per cup.

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