Introduction

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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Teila
Member
Posts: 19
Location: Forrest Beach
Country: Australia
Pet name: Ziggy
My name: Teila

Re: Introduction

Post by Teila » 28 Dec 2021, 20:12

No worries on the post hijack Pam! :D

Thank you for the information Jean! Following a quick phone call with our vet surgery this morning, I have sent them an email regarding Ziggy's becoming a part of the family, advising them that I will be popping in to do introductions shortly after his arrival and forwarded to them the link to Epi4Dogs, the quick guide and the B12 information.

Yes, we are in summer; however, living in Far North Queensland, our tropical summer consists of rain, rain and more rain .. currently under a flood watch but it wouldn't be the wet season without one of those!

I think we are good go now and will be able to hit the ground running when Ziggy arrives. Now, I just have to try and be patient while we wait for him .. As Pam suggested, I am crazy excited!! Can't wait to give our special little man a big cuddle!

Got some more pics yesterday from my sister; they are currently at a 3-day show and took Ziggy and his sister along, partly because she wanted to keep a close eye on Ziggy and also, as his sister will be shown, socialisation etc .. in the pictures they were both stretched out, fast asleep .. seeing all the sights etc is tiring work!

Thanks again!
Warm Regards
Teila & Ziggy

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Jean
Forum Director
Posts: 1707
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: Introduction

Post by Jean » 29 Dec 2021, 07:14

you can print and share anything from this website
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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Teila
Member
Posts: 19
Location: Forrest Beach
Country: Australia
Pet name: Ziggy
My name: Teila

Re: Introduction

Post by Teila » 30 Dec 2021, 02:50

Thank you Jean!

I was speaking to my sister today and Ziggy is tuckered out from all the excitement at the dog show but he appeared to have a good time!

I spent today puppyfying the fences; while they are pretty good and Ziggy will not be left unsupervised in the garden for a long while, I blocked off anywhere an inquisitive puppy might want to explore and possibly try and venture out!

As we have chickens, I was wondering how EPI dogs would go with a boiled egg? I see some of the recipes include raw egg.

Also, I was wondering if there is a page on the site with a list of foods EPI dogs may tolerate and those to definitely not feed? I found the great Treats page (Going to try some of those. I already have a dehydrator) and the Diet page but was looking more for things we could gradually try and introduce with reasonable safety?

I don't have a definite date yet but 11 days was mentioned! :D Very exciting!
Warm Regards
Teila & Ziggy

Tuckaboo Pam
Member
Posts: 1345
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: Introduction

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 30 Dec 2021, 08:26

Teila---11 DAYS!!!!

Jean may be sleeping, I'm not sure, but here's a link. I imagine you can find everything that is known about EPI, somewhere on this website!

https://epi4dogs.com/diet-in-brief/

Jean often recommends an enzymed scrambled egg with mashed potatoes as a bedtime snack. Whenever I boil eggs, my dogs go crazy for them, and Tucker always gets some included with his enzymed meal, so YES! Cooked eggs are fine, as long as enzymes are given.

I think they are really good for their coat, too. That beautiful merle coat you'll soon get to scruff & run your fingers through!!!--Pam
Tucker was a shepherd/lab mix--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Took Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlabs B12 one capsule per day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon/ morning (to hold SID at bay). Taste of the Wild High Prairie, 1 1/2 cups/day, with a total of 4 cups of Fresh Pet. Stopped eating everything in sight, and went from 60 to 85 pounds! Tucker was my boyfriend, and my husband was OK with that. Tucker succumbed to hemangiosarcoma, but we cherished every day we had with that wonderful, beautiful boy. I will always, always miss my sweet big boy.

Jane&Clyde
Member
Posts: 157
Country: United States
Pet name: Clyde
My name: Jane

Re: Introduction

Post by Jane&Clyde » 30 Dec 2021, 14:13

You must be getting so excited!

Dogs with EPI usually do best with meats or proteins from an animal source, so, like Pam said, an egg would be a great addition. It's easier to list foods to avoid than things that are ok, so here are the foods to avoid...

Anything high in fiber. You already know that when choosing a dry dog food, we recommend food with 4% fiber or less. With wet food (canned or raw), it's a little more complicated because the fiber amount needs to be calculated on a dry matter basis, taking into account all the extra water in the food. It means that the fiber amount needs to be significantly less than 4% on the label. Even 1% could be too much, depending on the formula. I'm not saying not to feed canned food, just be aware that the 4% guideline doesn't apply.

Grains. Grains can interfere with the enzymes by up to 50%. That's why we recommend a food that is both grain free and has 4% or less fiber.

Peas. Some EPI dogs are negatively affected by peas. My dog, Clyde, can't tolerate any peas in his diet.

Chicken. Some EPI dogs can't tolerate chicken. Clyde can tolerate moderate amounts, but he can't have a dog food formula whose primary protein is chicken. I haven't tried an egg with him, but often dogs react differently to chicken eggs than they do to chicken.

All of the above vary greatly from dog to dog. So, some dogs with EPI will be fine with the above foods, but most are affected by one or more.

P.S. Didn't I see that today is your birthday? Happy Birthday!

Tuckaboo Pam
Member
Posts: 1345
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: Introduction

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 30 Dec 2021, 17:02

Teila, another thing that helps is reading the signatures at the bottom of posts, where many of us list test results & routines. You can check out what foods others have fed successfully.

I think some of us are almost as excited as you are, with the Puppy Countdown! As I know I'll never have another puppy, I am certainly enjoying the countdown vicariously, and I expect to see many photos & videos, once she's home!
Tucker was a shepherd/lab mix--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Took Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlabs B12 one capsule per day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon/ morning (to hold SID at bay). Taste of the Wild High Prairie, 1 1/2 cups/day, with a total of 4 cups of Fresh Pet. Stopped eating everything in sight, and went from 60 to 85 pounds! Tucker was my boyfriend, and my husband was OK with that. Tucker succumbed to hemangiosarcoma, but we cherished every day we had with that wonderful, beautiful boy. I will always, always miss my sweet big boy.

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Teila
Member
Posts: 19
Location: Forrest Beach
Country: Australia
Pet name: Ziggy
My name: Teila

Re: Introduction

Post by Teila » 30 Dec 2021, 18:09

I just want to thank you all so much once again for your advice and support! Thank you for the birthday wishes Jane; Ziggy is going to be the best birthday present ever!!

Sorry if I am asking basic questions; even though I have explored the site extensively, it is a lot to take in so I think I will still have questions; I so want to get this right for Ziggy!

My plan now is to, using EPI signatures, your tips and information on the site, compile a 'go-to' meal schedule before Ziggy arrives, based around the 3% puppy kibble I have been able to source, which I can use as my baseline on arrival and once established, then try introducing some other EPI-appropriate variety, including those awesome 'treat recipes; for example, one meal could be kibble/boiled egg/mashed potato; another could be kibble/salmon/sweet potato; kibble/tuna/pumpkin etc. We know he can tolerate chicken. Of course, all with his enzymes and that food journal! (Please do not hesitate to jump in if I am on the wrong track).

The puppy food he is on now has rice and chicken; wouldn't rice be a 'no'? Also, tuna should be okay? (Keeping check on the salt levels)

I am definitely going to speak to my butcher on Saturday as I would like to trial the frozen pancreas cubes.

Today, I am off to buy his slow-eat bowl, bed, lead, toys etc!! So exciting! Also, grab that 3% puppy kibble while I can.

I will definitely be sharing pictures and our adventures! Living in a small coastal village, Ziggy already has a fan club who can't wait to meet him!

Thanks again, you have all been an immense help and I know that with your guidance, we can do this!

xoxo
Warm Regards
Teila & Ziggy

Jane&Clyde
Member
Posts: 157
Country: United States
Pet name: Clyde
My name: Jane

Re: Introduction

Post by Jane&Clyde » 30 Dec 2021, 22:04

Ask all of the questions you want! Usually somebody will know the answer, especially Olesia, the owner and founder of this site.

Tuna, and all fish, should be ok. Obviously dogs can have food intolerances that are not related to the EPI, but from an EPI standpoint, there shouldn't be any problems. Rice would generally be a "no", but it seems that Ziggy may be one of those dogs who doesn't fit the typical guidelines. And I suppose I should clarify what I mean by tolerating a food. Basically, watch the poop! Have you seen the poop chart linked at the bottom of the page? Dogs with EPI should be able to attain at least a 3, usually closer to a 2. If it is looser than that, something need to be tweaked a little bit.

Your plan to start slow and introduce new ingredients one at a time sounds good. However, I would be VERY careful with the white potatoes, sweet potatoes, and pumpkin. They have quite a bit of fiber, and it's easy to overdo it with them, or to upset the balance. I would start with only a teaspoon or so and try to work up from there.

I tried to look up the dog food that you are planning to feed. I'm not sure if I found the right one or not. If I did, it's not a food that I would personally recommend due to the high amounts of animal by-products and grains (personal preference only except for the possibility of the grains impacting how the enzymes work). I hate to say that about the food because I would normally give a suggestion or two about foods that I think might be a better choice. However, I know nothing about dog foods that are available in Australia. And, it is entirely possible that Ziggy will do just fine on the food. So, take everything that I have said about the particular dog food formula with a grain of salt.

Ziggy is so lucky to have you!

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Teila
Member
Posts: 19
Location: Forrest Beach
Country: Australia
Pet name: Ziggy
My name: Teila

Re: Introduction

Post by Teila » 31 Dec 2021, 01:03

Thank you so much Jane!

I did check out the poop chart and fortunately, at this stage, all reports are that since starting the Creon, Ziggy's poops are good.

I called into the Vet's today; Unfortunately, the three 'prescription' diet kibbles they had were not suitable for puppies and the lowest fibre percentage was 10%; so, they are not an option. I did actually hear back from two of the companies I approached and both did not have anything for puppies. The biggest problem I am having is not actually finding low fibre kibble, more age appropriate low fibre kibble. I am guessing Ziggy is not the norm, as in so young for diagnosis.

I have, however, been able to source: https://naturesgoodnesspetfood.com.au/o ... es-3kg-(3) which I can buy locally and which is 3% crude fibre.

Ingredients are as per the link and the typical analysis (which is not on the link but on the bag) is:
Metabolizable Energy 350 kCal/100g
Crude Protein 30%
Crude Fat 14%
Crude Fibre 3%
Calcium 1.6%
Phosphorous 1.20%
Zinc 120 mg/kg
Vitamin E, B6, B12 (0.035 mg/kg) Omega 3 and Omega 6

Basically, to date, this appears to be my best option so we are going to give that a try; my sister is going to see if she can get some of it as Ziggy is having a growth spurt, which is actually awesome news, but the Advance wet puppy food is probably not going to be enough for his needs during this spurt; she is trying him on some steamed carrot as well tonight.

Natures Goodness also do a growing puppy grain free 'meat roll'; it does contain peas but has a crude fat of 2%; this could be worth a try and more 'substantial' than the Advance tinned.

So, at the shopping today, I bought Ziggy a bed, a lead (already have a collar), a slow eat bowl, a brush, a bag of toys and a stuffed baby cow! LOL

Thanks again; not sure what I would do without the EPI team! xoxo
Warm Regards
Teila & Ziggy

User avatar
Teila
Member
Posts: 19
Location: Forrest Beach
Country: Australia
Pet name: Ziggy
My name: Teila

Re: Introduction

Post by Teila » 31 Dec 2021, 01:19

Sorry! "Natures Goodness also do a growing puppy grain free 'meat roll'; it does contain peas but has a crude fat of 2%; this could be worth a try and more 'substantial' than the Advance tinned" ... should have been crude fibre (not crude fat)
Warm Regards
Teila & Ziggy

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