EPI/SID Greyhound Questions

[Supe]

Ah that's a shame and of course a big worry for you, but it just has to be done sometimes - she'll be in good hands, I'm sure.

Do you know why her poops are that green colour? Is it just a factor of the food she's having? I don't remember ever seeing one that colour before! In terms of consistency, Joe's are often very similar to the second photo you posted - formed, but not always that firm to pick up, particularly as the day goes on.

I was going to suggest slippery elm for her reflux, but sounds like you may have that under control now, well done.

I'm honestly not sure on the green coloration. It started as an orange/yellow, and then changed to green as it began to firm up. Unless there is some sort of bacteria causing that coloration that 1/4 tsp of Tylan can't kick, or its being caused by the enzymes itself (unlikely), the only thing that correlates to the color change is the switch to the HA kibble. Her poops were a normal brown color (even the cow patties) prior to the EPI/SID testing, and did not change color until beginning the new food/medication regimen. Her liver enzymes are normal, and the poop has been very consistent in color. Only the occasional wet squirts at the end (like the small 2nd/3rd BM's during a walk or exercise) are sometimes mustard-colored. The odor is still very strong as well.

[EllieandJoe]

I had a little google and found a few posts in forums about Pro Plan turning poop green, so it must be just something in the food! So nothing to worry about there.

Only the occasional wet squirts at the end (like the small 2nd/3rd BM's during a walk or exercise) are sometimes mustard-colored. The odor is still very strong as well.

This rings true for Joe, too. Any soft or liquidy bits that come out after a normal poo are always yellow coloured and will smell stronger, just because it's gone through his system too quickly. Even his normal poos have a cheesy/sour milky smell though, which is normal for EPI dogs.

It sounds like you're doing great. Can you tell how she's doing weight-wise? x

[Supe]

I believe she's lost a little weight, but nothing major. She is still well within range for a greyhound her age. I have increased her evening meal portion and added a mid day meal to help offset some of the calorie loss from the chicken and rice. I will have a weight when I bring her to the vet next Thursday for comparison.

[Tuckaboo Pam]

I had three of my dogs' teeth cleaned recently---what a difference!

The poo color & the undigested bits just don't sound right. Have you thought about food sensitivity? Olesia recently suggested slowly weaning Tucker onto minced pork & sweet potato, to see if it helps his gas. I wonder if something like this would be a good trial for you, too?

Initially, I am finding that he may be getting better, though he is also still on some Sport Dog. The pork was on sale, I'm not sure I'll be able to keep it up for this big dog---BUT it gives me a starting point, where I can slowly introduce other proteins one at a time, and see how he reacts. Does this sound like something you could do? Forgive me, I'm on a lunch break & I can't go back & read your protocol right now.

---Pam

[Supe]

The food she's on currently is hypoallergenic with hydrolyzed chicken as the protein - so even if she's got a sensitivity to chicken, it shouldn't be causing a reaction.

I'm not convinced that she does have a sensitivity to chicken, because she was eating a considerable portion of boiled chicken daily prior to the HGE diagnosis for roughly a year, and between "bouts" of GI flareup, her poops looked much better than they do on this kibble. This leads me to think there is something else in the ProPlan HA kibble that may not be agreeing with her. The HA kibble does have a higher fiber content (over 5%) compared to the GE kibble, which is only about 2%, so maybe that's contributing to the SIBO?

I think following the dental, I will try transitioning her slowly from the Pro Plan HA kibble to the Pro Plan GE, to rule out the HA kibble being a problem specifically, and to identify if it is the color change culprit. They both use chicken as their main protein, so if there is no change, then I can try an alternate protein. That may be the tricky part, as she had GI issues with both salmon and lamb when she was younger, and it seems difficult finding limited ingredient/low fiber beef options (Taste of the Wild "Prey" is one I know of, but is still relatively high in fiber, capped at 5%). I am hesitant to try any of the grain free varieties based on the potential cardiac issues associated with them.

Thanks,

-Bryan

[Supe]

Also, for some reason, she does just fine with the evening meal. No gurgles or loud digestion issues.

With breakfast however, she seems to get the gurgles about 2 hours or so after eating. It goes away with a mid day meal, but then she gets severe gurgles and an increase in gas again about 2-2.5 hours later.

I'm not sure what's different about the AM/mid-day and PM meals, as the ratios of kibble to enzymes are the same for all three. The only difference is that she does not receive the Tylan at lunch.

[Supe]

One other question - does anyone have any recommendations for kibble? Ursala does not enjoy the flavor of the GE kibble like she does the HA (I had to mix some in, as there has been a shipping delay on the HA), so she's not cleaning the bowl.

I am willing to try grain free, but am struggling mightily to find a grain free kibble that is low in fiber and doesn't contain chicken, peas, or white potato other than Sport Dog Elite Herding, which isn't in stock at Chewy.

[Tuckaboo Pam]

I buy directly from the company:

https://www.sportdogfood.com/products/herding-dog

Amazon has it, too, but the link is a mile long. ---P

[Olesia711]

Hi Bryan,

I jsut read thru all your posts.... and wanted to hopefully answer/suggest some things....
That green coloring to the poo simply means the transit time is too quick. My understanding of this is that it will correct itself in time (sometimes). But what you can do is start or re-start probiotics to see if that will help. Proviable or Visbiome... jsut start with less than half the recommended dose and work your way up to a full dose over the course of a week or two if you are not already giving probiotics.

Next..... addressing SID, which appears to be what you are battling.... and i agree with you, at this point i suspect that there is some ingredient in the food that you are feeding her that is simply not optimally agreeing with her gut flora composition.

SO.... what i recommend is that you give her a pinch more Tylan, like 1/8 tsp with the morning and evening dose.... BUT.... i want you to change it up a bit.... instead of giving it to her twice a day... for the tough cases , what we have recommended in the past is figuring out the total daily dose of Tylan and instead of just twice a day, give it 3 times a day with 3 meals. SInce she is already getting lunch... and since this seems be problematic then... this hopefully will fix this problem.

SO... start giving her 1/4 tsp of Tylan with breakfast, lunch and dinner.

Regarding dog food... let me see what if anything i can come up with .....

[Olesia711]

okay... look at tis food (FARMINA)
https://www.dogfooddirect.com/nd-ocean- ... -food.aspx

No chicken, it does have sweet potato, but sweet potato is not an inflammatory like white potato, it doesn't have peas either, but it does have pea fiber as the 6th ingredient which is way down the list.... so it "should" be fine.... and the fiber content is very low, like 2.6%

Ingedients:
herring, dehydrated herring, sweet potatoes, herring oil, dried whole eggs, pea fiber, dried carrot, suncured alfalfa meal, inulin, fructooligosaccharide, yeast extract , dried sweet orange, dried pomegranate, dried apple, dried spinach, psyllium seed husk, dried blueberry, salt, brewers dried yeast, turmeric, glucosamine hydrochloride, chondroitin sulfate, vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, ascorbic acid, niacin, calcium pantothenate, riboflavin, pyridoxine hydrochloride, thiamine mononitrate, biotin, folic acid, vitamin B12 supplement, choline chloride, beta-carotene, zinc methionine hydroxy analogue chelate, manganese methionine hydroxy analogue chelate, ferrous glycine, copper methionine hydroxy analogue chelate, selenium yeast, DL-Methionine, taurine, L-Carnitine, aloe vera gel concentrate, green tea extract, rosemary extract, mixed tocopherols (a preservative).

Analysis:
Crude Protein (min): 34.00%; Crude Fat (min): 18.00%; Crude Fiber (max): 2.60%; Moisture (max): 9.00%; Ash (max): 7.80%; Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA) (min): 0.70%; Eicosapentaenoic Acid (EPA) (min): 0.40%, Calcium (min): 0.90%; Phosphorus (min): 0.80%; Omega-6 Fatty Acids* (min): 3.0%; Omega-3 Fatty Acids* (min): 1.20%; Glucosamine hydrochloride* (min): 1000mg/kg; Chondroitin Sulfate* (min): 700mg/kg. *Not recognized as an essential nutrient by the AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient Profiles.

And if you don't think this will work.. check out the other foods at this site, maybe one will fit your needed guidelines:
https://www.dogfooddirect.com/store/c/4 ... -Food.aspx

Hopefully this site might be of some use since Chewy is out of stock with the Sport Elite line.........