Tanks progress

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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TankTank
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Location: Ontario
Country: Canada

Tanks progress

Post by TankTank » 11 Sep 2018, 18:28

Tank

Tank went for a weighin today and he is still same weight. I captured a fresh stool sample. He is still thiin on hips but seems to have more muscle mass vet says he is still too lean and needs to buff up a bit more. May look into changing food diet withou peas and less then 4% fiber, current food has 5%. Poops look good pic included
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Tank GSD Born jul 22 16, diag EPI 22 months, TLI 06/08/18 b12 181,folate 22 TLI <1, TLI 08/15/18 b12 423 folate 12 TLI <1.0, Acana Lamb 2c 1c 2c mixed with 4 2 4 ounces fresh beef pancreas,liquified and mixed room temp, 6 hours, fortiflana probiotic, monthly b12 8cc, highest weight 93lbs(too chunky)lowest 73, current 82. Hate this disease.

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Madelon
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Location: Nashville, TN
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State: Tennessee
Pet name: Doc

Re: Tanks progress

Post by Madelon » 11 Sep 2018, 21:41

WOW - that a good looking poop!!! Glad to hear it sounds like things are headed in the right direction. I agree with looking for a food with lower fiber than 5% and hopefully less peas. Just watch your ingredients so you don't end up with a food sensitivity - when we were first dx and I changed foods the new food had white fish (most do) and my boy had horrible skin and ear infections for a few months until I figured it out with the help of the NutriScan Food Sensitivity Test. Keep a detailed journal - it will help you immensely.

Doing the happy poop dance for you!! By the way - are you supplementing B12 and feeding 150% of the food for the weight your dog should be?
MADELON and Doc. DX EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
Test Results: (1st) 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; (2nd) 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; (3rd) 10/2015 TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4. Prior to DX: May 2014 (2mos) - DX coccidia/bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Dx SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May 2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop. Regimen: 4 cups Sport Dog Food Elite Herding - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 1/2tsp Slippery Elm 2xday; Multivitamin; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Salmon Oil

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jilbert57
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Re: Tanks progress

Post by jilbert57 » 12 Sep 2018, 00:34

Nice poop picture!
My name is Jill and I live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. I have two dogs: Kiya is an aussie/blue heeler and is 13, TJ is a 4 year old Jack Russell. They keep me on my toes.
Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.
6/1999 - 8/2014

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Jean
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Pet name: Kara
My name: Jean

Re: Tanks progress

Post by Jean » 12 Sep 2018, 05:18

well that poop picture shows something is working

we recommend that you feed 150% of the food guide for the weight Tank SHOULD be, over several meals, if you can fit it in to your schedule

and keep a journal

I wonder, could you tell us the results of any blood test you have had done

dont fret, Kara too a long time to fill out, it will happen

jean
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We use Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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TankTank
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Re: Tanks progress

Post by TankTank » 12 Sep 2018, 08:42

Tanks story so far is

Oct/17 tanks vet visit for shots he was a healthy 93 lbs and happy as can be. His life was very different he got lots of treats ate kibble straight up from the bag. in march/18 we started to notice he was eating his poop and also eating his food very fast. his poop looked like poop only slushy, we change food because we also noticed scratching he seemed to be itchy we got his revelution started thinking fleas. over next month into late april things got worse poop more runny and grey, called vet who advised to increase feeding to 3 times a day. we also noticed he was getting thinner so end of may we took him to vet, she said it was a GI infection gave us antibiotic tannk weighed 78lbs , i also wanted bloodwork done, vet said not needed i said run it anyway. I get a call from the vet, i remember that day well, she said something strange came back in his blood and wanted to run special test called tli. She also warned me that it may be nothing but also could have something wrong with pancreas.

We fasted tank that night and brought him for his test june 7. Test results came in june 8th b12 181 folate 22 tli <1.0,
She sent us home with rxzyme 1 scoop per cup food, progut plus 4 scoops per feeding and gave him a b12 shot,

Poops got better but he continued to get worse started being sick in his crate and pooping in it. brought him back to vet was 73lbs, back on antibiotics and weekly weighins the next week he was back up to 78lbs, weekly injections continued, we added fresh pancreas that helped get poops looking better.

He maintain 78 lbs so we continued the b12 and after 6 weeks and waiting 3.5 week ran another tli results returned aug 15 b12 423 folate 12 tli<1.0 , Vet called and wanted to put him on very expensive 0 meat diet and pankaide at 116 plus tax she said i would need 2 bottles per month food was 118 per 8kg bag. beyond our means now to care for him

We were on the way to put him down as i did not want let him suffer, we pulled up to the vets and i got a call from a supplier who can get me as much fresh pancreas as i needed cheap.

We kept him and and started giving him fresh pancreas. vet said to let the mix sit for 6 hours and she suspected his acid was so strong it was destroying the enzymes before they reach the intestines.

So we made more changes
Acana Lamb
Breakfast 2 cups blended to powder, 4 ounces fresh beef pancreas liquified fortiflana probiotic
lunch 6 hours later 1 cup with 2 ounce fresh pancreas prepared same as breakfast
supper 2 cups 4 ounces pancreas prepared same as breakfast

we have to wet the powder till it resembled concrete then mix in the pink pancreas milkshake let it sit for 6 hours at room temp. add probiotics before we feed it to him.

He actually eats this slop he must love it he crys for it,

I just hope the blender does not break down. that kibble is hard
Tank GSD Born jul 22 16, diag EPI 22 months, TLI 06/08/18 b12 181,folate 22 TLI <1, TLI 08/15/18 b12 423 folate 12 TLI <1.0, Acana Lamb 2c 1c 2c mixed with 4 2 4 ounces fresh beef pancreas,liquified and mixed room temp, 6 hours, fortiflana probiotic, monthly b12 8cc, highest weight 93lbs(too chunky)lowest 73, current 82. Hate this disease.

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Jean
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Pet name: Kara
My name: Jean

Re: Tanks progress

Post by Jean » 12 Sep 2018, 09:49

WOW, WOW WOW

Those figures are not good

I am hugely disappointed in your vets disinterest, or lack of knowledge in taking so long, and you having to insist on him being tested

https://www.pureformulas.com/rx-zyme-fo ... amins.html

rx-zyme is a supplement not an enzyme replacement

again I am disappointed

why on earth would you want to put a dog on a no meat diet, and the cost issue makes me very angry for you

i would love to know why he was producing acid to such a level, the acids will break down the enzymes, and had they been the right ones, he would have done better

have you changed vets ?

i would have no confidence in that vet whatever, but that is a personal opinion

we tried pancreas, and Kara gave me one withering look as she walked away tail aloft, no way, Jose

have you considered Enzyme Diane, she does discounted enzymes

https://enzymediane.com/

this is a Youtube for pancreas



i have no ideas why you should have to wait 6 hours before feeding

now what about antibiotics to rid of the bad bugs in the gut

finally, I am proud of you for standing your ground,

and we welcome you and Tank

what is your name

keep a journal

and let us know what happens

jx
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We use Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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TankTank
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Posts: 20
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada

Re: Tanks progress

Post by TankTank » 12 Sep 2018, 12:42

In response to the vet. This is her 1st case of epi, and she did say i did a lot of research on it and probably knew more about it then her.

I agree rxzyme was not working for tank that why we got him on fresh pancreas which she said was awesome, trouble was in the beginning i did not have alot of supply and was only able to give him reduced amounts each meal and add 2 scoops of the zymme but he was not getting better and when the second test came back less then 1 for tli she wanted to put him on pankaide and change food(i do think this was a weight increase formula easy to digest), at the time i knew i could not afford to keep tank. cost would be more a month then a mortgage payment.

I was so close to putting him down when my supplier called and advised he could get me as much as i needed and then some every month. I got his call in the parking lot of the vet just on the way into to have him put down.

I told the vet this and she said it would be better to give it another shot as he is not suffering now and getting some benefit from what he is eating now.

I doubled the fresh pancreas morning from 2 ounces to 4 lunch from 1 ounce to 2 and supper from 2 to 4. with no zymme

She said research said i guess from her sources to mix and let stand 6 hours to allow food to part digest before feeding. I thought big kibble hard to break down so i started grinding it the first day when i increased the pancreas added to food, i also read that liquifying the pancreas will even out enzymes and not every peice has the same amount of enzymes

So now he is more stable not loosing not gaining a little on the lean side she said its working, we are still working out the food for now will leave him on lamb from acana but am looking into changing from 5% fibre to 4%.

He did not do will on fish pork or chicken. He was on grasslands acana but we changed that 2 bags ago to single source protien lamb, he also does well on beef but the fiber in ranchland is 7% so we dont want to increase fiber we want to decrease it. So when we find the right one we will change, just got our free big bad of acana so now we have 4 weeks to find a different food and transition him onto it.

My vet is still working with me knows the cost and budget that i have , but keeps suggesting i go completly raw die since he is more stable.
Tank GSD Born jul 22 16, diag EPI 22 months, TLI 06/08/18 b12 181,folate 22 TLI <1, TLI 08/15/18 b12 423 folate 12 TLI <1.0, Acana Lamb 2c 1c 2c mixed with 4 2 4 ounces fresh beef pancreas,liquified and mixed room temp, 6 hours, fortiflana probiotic, monthly b12 8cc, highest weight 93lbs(too chunky)lowest 73, current 82. Hate this disease.

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TankTank
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Posts: 20
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada

Re: Tanks progress

Post by TankTank » 12 Sep 2018, 12:52

Thanks for the video, this is exactly how we do it, but we weigh the portion for each meal and freeze it, going to try sissors to cut it up looks much easier. there is some waste fat and other gross parts but after you cut a few pounds you kind of get use to the smell.

the slop looks gross but he absolutly loves the stuff. gobbles it down

it also slows him down alot cause it so sticky

i am going to get a better backup bottle from epi4dogs website for backup, but from what my supplies tell me i can get as much fresh as i require. he needs about 20 lbs a month with current feeding.
Tank GSD Born jul 22 16, diag EPI 22 months, TLI 06/08/18 b12 181,folate 22 TLI <1, TLI 08/15/18 b12 423 folate 12 TLI <1.0, Acana Lamb 2c 1c 2c mixed with 4 2 4 ounces fresh beef pancreas,liquified and mixed room temp, 6 hours, fortiflana probiotic, monthly b12 8cc, highest weight 93lbs(too chunky)lowest 73, current 82. Hate this disease.

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TankTank
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Posts: 20
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada

Re: Tanks progress

Post by TankTank » 12 Sep 2018, 13:11

i also give tank mothly b12 shots at home, i have a bottle with 30 doses and needles to give him,

I love Tank very much, he is the smartest loyal friend i ever had. I took him to puppy school level 1 and 2 he listens and watches me on command,

he loves to come everywhere with me, he is even able to see when my youngest son 8 is upset. he takes upon himself to lie next to him put his head on his lap and comfort him.

he is truley the most remarkable dog i ever knew.
Tank GSD Born jul 22 16, diag EPI 22 months, TLI 06/08/18 b12 181,folate 22 TLI <1, TLI 08/15/18 b12 423 folate 12 TLI <1.0, Acana Lamb 2c 1c 2c mixed with 4 2 4 ounces fresh beef pancreas,liquified and mixed room temp, 6 hours, fortiflana probiotic, monthly b12 8cc, highest weight 93lbs(too chunky)lowest 73, current 82. Hate this disease.

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TankTank
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Posts: 20
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada

Re: Tanks progress

Post by TankTank » 12 Sep 2018, 18:01

Picked up some slippery elm powder today not expensive 100g for about 8 dollars, asked if anything else in it, you never know, he said it was pure not cut with anything, think i will start at 1/4 teaspoon and see what happens. Maybe it helps reduce the acid in his stomach allowing more zymes to reach intestine.
Tank GSD Born jul 22 16, diag EPI 22 months, TLI 06/08/18 b12 181,folate 22 TLI <1, TLI 08/15/18 b12 423 folate 12 TLI <1.0, Acana Lamb 2c 1c 2c mixed with 4 2 4 ounces fresh beef pancreas,liquified and mixed room temp, 6 hours, fortiflana probiotic, monthly b12 8cc, highest weight 93lbs(too chunky)lowest 73, current 82. Hate this disease.

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