Tanks progress

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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Jean
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Posts: 650
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara
My name: Jean

Re: Tanks progress

Post by Jean » 13 Sep 2018, 05:01

i have never used ut so keep us up to speed

j
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We use Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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Judy
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Posts: 25
Location: Newfoundland
Country: Canada

Re: Tanks progress

Post by Judy » 13 Sep 2018, 07:17

I'm just chiming in to say.....That poop is amazing!!!
Piper was 13 months old when she began having symptoms and diagnosed at 16 months of age. She had lost 21 lbs from Oct 2013 to Jan 2014 but gained it back very quickly once she began enzymes, B12 and Tylan. She would go on to develop Hypothyroidism, Cushings Disease, SLO, SARDS as well as chronic infections. Through it all, she was just the happiest dog and never met a stranger, everyone was her friend.

Piper crossed the Rainbow Bridge on April 20th, 2018 at just 5 years of age from other auto immune diseases. She will be forever missed, forever loved and her spirit will live on in our hearts and our home.

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TankTank
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Location: Ontario
Country: Canada

Re: Tanks progress

Post by TankTank » 13 Sep 2018, 10:06

Thanks, For all the positive poop comments, took a while to get it at thay level.

So no reaction from slippery elm so far 2nd feeding of 1/4 teaspoon was this morning, hoping it settles the acid level in tommy allowing more zymmes to reach the intestines.

Today is pancreas day. Picking up another 15 lbs today. will be busy packaging this weekend. Going to try the new scissors i bought
Tank GSD Born jul 22 16, diag EPI 22 months, TLI 06/08/18 b12 181,folate 22 TLI <1, TLI 08/15/18 b12 423 folate 12 TLI <1.0, Acana Lamb 2c 1c 2c mixed with 4 2 4 ounces fresh beef pancreas,liquified and mixed room temp, 6 hours, fortiflana probiotic, monthly b12 8cc, highest weight 93lbs(too chunky)lowest 73, current 82. Hate this disease.

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Jean
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Posts: 650
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara
My name: Jean

Re: Tanks progress

Post by Jean » 13 Sep 2018, 12:48

i use scissors to cut any meat up

jean
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We use Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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TankTank
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Posts: 20
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada

Re: Tanks progress

Post by TankTank » 24 Sep 2018, 12:53

Was able to score 37lbs of fresh pancreas lots of waste, only got about 30 days was going over the numbers and it is more cost effective to get the enzymes from here i will place order for 1kg of 8x powder, slippery elm seemed to really soften poops between 3-4 took him off and poops returned to normal

we also change food from acana lamb to natural balance duck and potato , acana lamb had 5%fiber and 15% fat, natural bal has 3.5 fiber and 10% fat

hope this adjustment will put more weight on him.
Tank GSD Born jul 22 16, diag EPI 22 months, TLI 06/08/18 b12 181,folate 22 TLI <1, TLI 08/15/18 b12 423 folate 12 TLI <1.0, Acana Lamb 2c 1c 2c mixed with 4 2 4 ounces fresh beef pancreas,liquified and mixed room temp, 6 hours, fortiflana probiotic, monthly b12 8cc, highest weight 93lbs(too chunky)lowest 73, current 82. Hate this disease.

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TankTank
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Posts: 20
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada

Re: Tanks progress

Post by TankTank » 03 Oct 2018, 22:44

I ordered 2kg of 8x zymes enough for 190 days. Price went up on fresh. also 37lbs we got 30 days.. a lot of waste with fresh. sometimes the pancreas was turning to fat unusable.

we continue to feed raw till our shipment arrives then we switch him, he looks fantastic, poops solid we can tell he is bulking up. his collar had to be adjusted bigger, will bring for weight check in another week.
Tank GSD Born jul 22 16, diag EPI 22 months, TLI 06/08/18 b12 181,folate 22 TLI <1, TLI 08/15/18 b12 423 folate 12 TLI <1.0, Acana Lamb 2c 1c 2c mixed with 4 2 4 ounces fresh beef pancreas,liquified and mixed room temp, 6 hours, fortiflana probiotic, monthly b12 8cc, highest weight 93lbs(too chunky)lowest 73, current 82. Hate this disease.

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Olesia711
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Posts: 914
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy

Re: Tanks progress

Post by Olesia711 » 05 Oct 2018, 13:06

Read Tank's story and thrilled to hear that he is responding so well to the raw pancreas. If it works. CONTINUE!!!!!
If you want a backup i would definitely contact Enzyme Diane and get 1/2 kilo or 1 kilo of 6x... Her enzymes are 1/3 the cost of the same appropriate brand enzymes- -because you get 3 times as much enzymes
https://enzymediane.com/
... also with raw.... each pancreas will vary from one to the next slightly so you ALWAYS have to give more than needed to cover any natural discrepancy.

Powdered and Raw enzymes/when going down the digestive tract due to the dog's digestive pH level (acid) 70% of the enzymes are destroyed BEFORE the hit the digestive system where they are needed to work. This is why we give such high doses of powdered enzymes - -to make sure the right amount still reaches the gut where needed... and this is why you have to give a substantial amount of raw pancreas. This is also why enteric coated enzymes are less in potency, but then there is a problem with enteric coated products of reaching the gut at the right time to work (because of the coating) AND also the size of the pellets need to be small enough to work thru the process... this is why we have to play around with "how" to give many of the enteric coated products/or the amount... whereas the powdered enzymes are more consistent potency & of course size, and raw enzymes are also good just varies with potency but size is also perfect when needed in the gut to process. Crazy stuff!

Anyway.... the one glaring issue i see is the 6 hour incubation.... YIKES!!!! don't do this.... sure way to invite bacteria- -really get SID unmanageable and the dog will have issues really getting stable............. that acid you are battling could very well be from SID...... the SLippery Elm should help..... but the underlying problem "might" be this long 6 hr wait inviting bacteria.

What i would change immediately is the incubation. I am assuming you are purifying the raw pancreas, pouring in an ice cube tray and just taking out the # of cubes needed for each meal. In which case.... just take the cube out, toss in a zip lock bag, place in a bowl of warm water to help the cubes defrost and liquefy. Once the cubes are liquefied and room temperature.... mix in with the food, wait 20-30 minutes and SERVE!

Then as a next step to try..... i would try the slippery elm to help get the gut flora in better check.
Wonderlabs has just started carrying a good quality source of SLippery Elm
https://www.wonderlabs.com/itemleft.php?itemnum=K97024
i started using this and am very pleased... It appears to be high quality.

As mentioned above... if you are not doing already, start feeding 150% of what Tank requires..... although make sure the meals are small portions, just feed more meals thru out the day.... 3 meals will do.

Next.... give these changes time to see if the acid stops and weight starts happening.... as SID can and will inhibit weight gain.... along with low B12, insufficient enzymes, wrong food.... you just have to address things 1 at a time.

If Tank can handle eggs... then this is another great thing to add to the meals.... 1 raw egg 3 to 4 times a week.
Another trick is to try (and this REALLY works) if Tank can handle this- -just start slow with like 1/2 tsp per twice a day.....add .Cold Pressed/ Extra Virgin Coconut Oil (just don't buy the junk from Walmart!) to 2 meals a day...... i order mine from Swansons ... i personally like Jarrows the best... but you can also get it from Amazon.com . If he can handle the 1/2 tsp, then you can increase it to 1 tsp per breakfast & dinner...... this really packs on the pound, healthy MCT fat that most EPI dogs can handle and do very well on AND it tends to cease dry itchy skin that seems to happen from grain free food (why i have no idea.......)

Weight gain comes quickly or slowly depending on the individual dog.... but in general, once you find the magic balance of the recommended protocol.... and EPI dogs usually does very well and then starts to gain weight. Actually, many do so well that we end up having to put them on diets... repeatedly. (Personal experience..... my gal had to be placed on a diet 7 times cuz she got a little too pleasantly plump!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Please keep us posted!
Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Doing great 12+ years later! Once stable at 3+ months, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each cup of food, but as she aged- -had to go back 1 tsp enzymes per cup of food. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil / fish oil daily .... until she developed Diabetes and she now cannot tolerate higher fat foods. Currently feed an 80% home-made diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, 1/3 of a raw egg, fat free cottage cheese, fish oil+vitamins and bone meal with 20% Annamaet Lean & Grain Free kibble. This combo has regulated her Diabetes (takes Vetsulin) and EPI and is very well managed. In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. This is when we discovered that she also developed Diabetes & Low Thyroid. Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the generosity of folks on Epi4dogs! Izzy continues to wake up every day full of joy. I am not a vet. All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal experiences, observations, information gleaned from EPI researchers & pet parents alike, and EPI research. Please share with your vet everything we suggest.

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Jean
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Posts: 650
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara
My name: Jean

Re: Tanks progress

Post by Jean » 06 Oct 2018, 04:45

i have tried raw pancreas once, it didnt go down well at all

each organ is different, even slightly,and they are not sterile, and I agree that the time left is maybe too long,, and losing potency

Olesia mentioned enteric coated enzyme, we tried Lypex over here for 2 years, but it became cost prohibitive

the University vet college did a trial back in 2010 on enteric coating and it showed that dogs and cats on it did better, but I still prefer the powder we use, you can tweak it to your dogs personal needs
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We use Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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TankTank
Member
Posts: 20
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada

Re: Tanks progress

Post by TankTank » 18 Dec 2018, 10:29

Update on Tank.

I have taken Tank to the vet today. Results below

weight 86 lbs Goal weight achieved. Vet says may have to reduce food intake a bit as she says he is a bit chunky, he lost his hour glass look about him.

Coat is awesome
Poops are solid and black

Vet is really impressed with his progress

We still have him on acana single source protien of lamb
we switched to enzyme diane 8x from fresh and he is doing even better

He gets 2 cups morning with probiotic 1 cup lunch and 2 cups supper
We grind food to a powder add 1.5 teaspoons of powder for morning and supper feeding and 3/4 teaspoon for lunch adding luke warm water and mix in food, we still let food stand for 5 hours room temp and feed it to him.

He cleans his plate every feeding.

I also give him b12 shots at home, 1 every 3 weeks.

He is a happy well fed dog.
Tank GSD Born jul 22 16, diag EPI 22 months, TLI 06/08/18 b12 181,folate 22 TLI <1, TLI 08/15/18 b12 423 folate 12 TLI <1.0, Acana Lamb 2c 1c 2c mixed with 4 2 4 ounces fresh beef pancreas,liquified and mixed room temp, 6 hours, fortiflana probiotic, monthly b12 8cc, highest weight 93lbs(too chunky)lowest 73, current 82. Hate this disease.

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Jean
Staff
Posts: 650
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara
My name: Jean

Re: Tanks progress

Post by Jean » 18 Dec 2018, 10:37

now that is awesome news,

keep up the good work and Happy Holidays

Jean
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We use Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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