New Member - Who's Lost

[lucy_girl_gsd]

I'm new to this. As a mom to children and pets (like is there a difference?) I've been researching this for weeks and finally stumbled across this website. Thank you for being here.

Our Lucy was diagnosed last Friday after a good 5 weeks of trying to figure out what was going on. She's lost quite a bit of weight and is down to 51 lbs. We started enzymes this Tuesday. Our vet told us that this is only he second case he's ever dealt with and its been a very long time. So any advice, or things I need to ask for, look for would be greatly appreciated.

A little about Lucy. She is an 8 month old, fun loving GSD. She hasn't skipped a beat and continues to be loving and sweet through it all.

Current Questions:
- What am I looking for in Dog Food - I'm currently using Nurlo - Limited Ingredient Salmon
- How are you wetting down the food. Currently we are using a spray bottle to squirt water over it. Should I be putting more water?
- Our first bottle of Enzymes from the Vet was $160 for 12 oz. Are there as effective enzymes that are less expensive?
- While training our GSD - I've been using treats to mark behavior. She looks for it now. How can I tell her no? I've found some limited ingredient treats that are GF - can I continue to mark good behavior?
- How do I know if I need to get her B12 shots?
- Ohhh and poop ... I have so many poop questions, but will save those for another day.

[Barb]

A very warm welcome to you and Lucy! We are so glad you found us. You are not lost. You just need some information and you will find plenty of it here. Many members here have been dealing with EPI on a daily basis for many years.

As long as your vet is willing to work with you and learn with you, then he is a keeper. Many vets do not have experience with EPI. You can download and print out any of the information you find here and share it with him.

First, take a breath. We all remember what it is like to be where you are. EPI is very manageable, but it feels overwhelming at first because you are learning many new things while you are worried about your pup. She is adorable.

There are four main elements to treat EPI: Enzymes, Food, B12, and Antibiotics, (if needed. )

If you can send us Lucy's TLI test results (numbers) it will help us to help you. B12 (cobalamin) and folate are probably included.

ENZYMES: YES! you can get enzymes at a reasonable cost. One of our members provides an excellent product (pancreatin) at very affordable prices. Many of us have been using her enzymes for years. You can go to her website enzymediane.com. She publishes her phone number so you can call and talk to her. She is wonderful to work with. (For that $160 I get almost a Kilo of enzymes.......which lasts us 3 and 1/2 months and Kolby is 85 pounds)

Food: We usually recommend a grain-free, low fiber food (4% or less) There is a list of food suggestions under the tab on our web page. As your pup has lost quite a bit of weight, you probably want to give her 150% of what she is now eating until she is back to her target weight.

B12: Most dogs have low B12 when they are first diagnosed. B12 is extremely important and can cause all kinds of symptoms if it is low. We usually recommend a protocol of B12 injections, once a week, for 6 weeks (the injections should be B12 only, not any of the complexes). Then maintenance with Wonderlabs pills with Intrinsic factor...we can talk to you later about this. Her B12 level should be on the test results.....listed as cobalamin.

ANTIBIOTICS: Many dogs have SID/SIBO when they are diagnosed and need an antibiotic to clear it up (symptoms are smelly stools, yellow color, cow patty stools, gurgling sounds in the tummy, etc) We recommend a 45 day regimen of tylosin, a mild antibiotic that works well for EPI.

FOOD/ENZYME PREPARATION: We usually have people start with 1 level teaspoon of powdered enzyme per cup of kibble. I dissolve the powder in a little warm water (Kolby gets two cups of kibble per meal, so I use about 1/4 cup of warm water, not hot)... then pour the enzyme/water mixture over the kibble and mix thoroughly. Let it sit for about 30 minutes.

Some dogs don't like the enzymes at first, some don't even notice. It all depends on the pup.

The best advice I received when Kolby was diagnosed 8 and 1/2 years ago was to keep a log/journal. Record everything you give Lucy, the amounts, and the resulting stools. This will tell you what is working and what isn't and will keep all your questions in one place. It saved our sanity. You can print a blank log form from the products tab above or just use a notebook.

Try not to feel too overwhelmed. There are many people here to help you through the beginning stage, which is the hardest time.

Oh.....and no treats for a while, until she is stable. I know this is hard. Some people use a toy or a ball as reward.


Ask as many questions as you have.

Welcome again.

Barb

[jilbert57]

I just want to say Barb has given you great advice. Welcome to the forum and all questions are welcome.

[Jean]

wow

welcome from me in the UK

Barb has covered just about everything

the only thing I would add is the enzyme name she mentioned

https://enzymediane.com/

my good friend Pat who is a member once said

she was lost and EPI4DOGS gave her a map, I love that saying

as for weight

my girl at 5 months old when we got her was 44 pounds, at 14 months at time of diagnosis she waas 39 pounds, she was a skeleton, so please dont fret, the statement from a vet said "massively emaciated", cried all the way home

That was 2010

she is now 90 pounds

as to foods, grain free low fibre seems to work for most of them , and for some reason chicken doesnt seem to agree with them , and grain free usually includes rice

if you can, feed 150% of the recommendation on the food instructions, over small meals, if you can fit it into your busy life, all enzymed

treats are a no, no for now, a ball or whatever sometimes works, over here the police and prison service use a ball for reward for their dogs, we did the same, but look on the bright side, things will improve

the journal is a must , photos, measurements, whatever, is so important to a vet, who is learning with you

i am sure there is something I have forgotten, so ask away

Jean UK

[Riley's Mom]

I just wanted to add my welcome as well.
EPI is very overwhelming at first, but honestly it's just a part of our daily routine now, and will be for you too.
Holding treats (at least until stable) will turn out to be harder on you than your pup. They adapt pretty well to the new norm. Once your pup is stable, meaning good poops for 2-3 months, you can begin to experiment with treats. But I would hold for now. Anything given without enzymes can not be digested and could set you back on your road to stability.
I also encourage you to look into enzymediane.com she is about 1/3 the price and the enzymes are every bit as effective. In fact, she sources from the same places the big name brands do, but she has less overhead, less packaging etc so can offer them as a generic option. When I first discussed with my vet, he was reluctant for me to switch as he was not familiar. But we are now almost 5 years in and my girl is doing great. Honestly I would not have been able to afford to keep her without the cheaper option that Diane provides.....
Please continue to keep us updated and ask questions as you have them.

[Madelon]

Hi and welcome to our family!! As you can see it takes a village to raise these puppers, which by the way yours is ADORABLE!!! You've been given great advice from some of our most experienced members. The only thing I will add is that we recommend using the proper protocol of enzymes, food and B12 before trying antibiotics if you are dealing with SID. Sometimes just getting the right EPI protocol in place is enough for the gut to correct itself without antibiotics. If after two weeks the poops are still not right - depending on how "off" they are you can try Slippery Elm bark powder or you may have to go the antibiotic route.

As for poop - we are all about the poop here LOL. I found taking pictures helps as it's hard to remember exactly what the poop looked like 2 days ago when you're looking at so much poop LOL.

[lucy_girl_gsd]

Thank you everyone. Your responses and advice is very much appreciated.

[Judy]

I'm just jumping in here to say welcome. You have already received amazing advice up top.

EPI is scary and overwhelming at first. We've all been there so don't ever think that any question you have isn't worth asking. Questions are how we learn from each other.

[Stacie & Dizzy]

Just wanted to say welcome to the group and Lucy is adorable. You have been given great advice. I dehydrate my girl's dog food after it has incubated with the enzymes and use that as treats. I sometimes buy grain free treats, soak them in enzymes and dehydrate those too. She does very well with them.

[pinglukol]

A warm welcome to you and your girl Lucy. Friends in this forum advised you many good management of food, medicine and process. I have saved my girl by the cooperation and encouragement of all the friends over here. So we are all cheering you up to win your race.

Regards
Samir of Pinglu