New, sorting it out, curious about CBD oil

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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jilbert57
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State: Washington

Re: New, sorting it out, curious about CBD oil

Post by jilbert57 » 28 Sep 2018, 17:44

Which Victor formula are you using?
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have one pup. TJ is a 5 year old Jack Russell.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

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Olesia711
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My name: olesia

Re: New, sorting it out, curious about CBD oil

Post by Olesia711 » 28 Sep 2018, 19:43

Hmmmmm........ just thinking out of the box here.....i noticed you are giving her weekly B12 shots (good!)...... has it been enough time on the shots yet to where Roxanne has had her B12 been retested ? Not that this happens that often, but sometimes on rare occasions it does happen that the B12 shots don't work..... in which case you will want to try / or add to the regimen Wonderlabs oral B12 pills that are made with Methylcobalamin B12 ( intrinsic factor & folate are also included) "Pet Factor B12"

Just throwing this out there as a remote possibility because of the reactiveness.

However.... what is more likely is that the reactiveness could be a learned behavior....even if it started due to a real cause like low B12... or not....

Am pleased to hear that you are planning to work on it. I have 3 dogs, 2 are females that were (and still are) in competition with each other/resource guarded me, yadda, yadda. Eleven non-compulsive dog certified dog trainers told me that i couldn't fix the problem and to get rid of one of the dogs. In my gut i felt that there was still hope for these two dogs to live together. Finally the 12th trainer came to my house and worked with me and the dogs... that was 8 years ago and the worst thing that they do today is steal one another's toys and run.... but no more bloodshed or crazy tear each other up fights.... just thought i'd share.... hopefully you too will have success with Roxanne too :)
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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Jean
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Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: New, sorting it out, curious about CBD oil

Post by Jean » 29 Sep 2018, 05:31

my vets give b12 injections for what they call anorexia in dogs, and for reactiveness

what will she eat ? as in ANYTHING

sometimes prednisone is given as an appetite enhanser

it could be something as simple as a very sore tummy, and a course of TYLAN might help

will she eat out of your handI

as to the oil I have tried it, as has a friend with her dog, difficult to tell, as it is so expensive to keep ordering, but I am going to give it a try again personally, very painful back !

watch this space

jean
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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ed7385
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State: Texas

Re: New, sorting it out, curious about CBD oil

Post by ed7385 » 29 Sep 2018, 09:45

Well we've only given her one injection, so I would think we need to wait longer. I haven't even gotten the rest of the test results (chomping at the bit, I want to KNOW!) so I think I need to hold my horses (or dog that looks like a horse) as they say.

I think it might be the enzymes that are off putting to her. Because if I sprinkle parmesan cheese on the food, or a small amount of canned, gravy type food... she gobbles it up. So I might just tweak that for a while, and work on her gaining some weight before I worry about it much. Maybe we can switch to a different delivery method for the enzyme later.

I also think the reactiveness might just be due to lack of socialization. She is really smart, knows Sit, Shake, Up, Platz (for lay down) Come, Out, Crate... She just gets SO EXCITED with other dogs it's hard to introduce her properly. I've asked the rescue to place another GSD with me, so we can work on it and work on feeding times so she'll be easier to adopt. Fingers crossed the dog they give me is a good match and can help Roxanne.

I've ordered a basic hemp oil for dogs to try with her too. I have no concrete evidence, but I just have a gut feeling it might help. Jean, if you're looking for human consumption, I have had success with topical on my back (I had a microdiscectomy 3 years ago) so I highly recommend creams and oils as well. A friend has been using Steve's Goods blends for general aches and pains, but they don't make a canine blend.

Anyone deal with allergies in all this? She's itching her muzzle a lot, I'm wondering if it's a sign of allergies... but then again, we have so much going on I'm trying to address one thing at a time! It's hard!

Oh, and the food. It's Victor Select, Chicken Meal & Brown Rice with Lamb meal. I'm going to try and attach a picture and a link and see what works. LOL. Maybe I should try a blend that's not a chicken base?

Image
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1L8bak ... -NWQQchvu1
Roxanne, foster dog extraordinaire, GSD/malinois mix (Lord help me with the high energy)
Diagnosed 6/18, new to foster home 9/18 and let the treatment begin
PancreaPowder Plus 2tsp, 3x/day mixed with 2 cups Victor, weekly b12 injections, metronidazole

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Jean
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My name: Jean

Re: New, sorting it out, curious about CBD oil

Post by Jean » 30 Sep 2018, 00:47

hmmmmmmmmm

well Kara is all that you report, and its been very hard to deal with, she will chase anything, her thing is......if it moves, chase it, if it doesn't make it move

traffic was the worst, she would leap at anything, we sorted that one out with a trainer, and I spent hours on the roads with her, she had my Husband over a couple of times, leaping in the air

you could try Bachs

http://www.bachflower.com/rescue-remedy-pet/

i have to admit I gave up on the medication, there are a few dogs she will associate with, but not many, but part of that was due to a dog being very difficult with her, maybe a stooge dog would be the answer

Madelon who is the President of EPI4DOGS also has a reactive dog, so you are not on your own

do you have your own dog at home, and how long will you have her with you

the itchy muzzle is likely to be the enzymes

are you mixing them with some warm water, and stiring into the food, and letting it sit for a while

try feeding on a flat glass plate, or pie dish, the muzzle has less chance of being in all of the food, and then wash the mouth out with a spray bottle

There is another enzyme called Creon, which has no smell whatever, but I dont know the cost over there

i will ask for you

the one thing we tried with Kara as she was a terrible eater, was a small amount of cat food, the canned type, or some green tripe, for some reason they adore it !

thanks for the suggestions, I have no idea what I have done to my back, but it hurts, they have referred me to hospital so we will see what that brings, I tried a chiropractor, that was even worse, black and blue

such is life

jean
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

Paige's Guardian
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Country: United States
State: Arizona

Re: New, sorting it out, curious about CBD oil

Post by Paige's Guardian » 30 Sep 2018, 06:18

Hi and welcome,

I would keep with the current enzyme regimen and not switch to raw pancreas. Raw pancreas is difficult to dose but either way she should be stable before switching anything up. I like the idea adding a little canned food in to help mask the smell of the enzymes and that seems to be working.

I have used CBD oil from innova vet pet products for 2 of my labs with orthopedic pain. One lab also has high energy. We used it for about 6 months. I saw no difference in their pain levels or energy levels. It did not work for these 2 labs.

Last, start a journal to document what you are doing to keep track. Then, you can see what is working and what is not.

Conny
Paige's Guardian (Conny)

Paige, 8-year old Great Dane.

Dx: Malabsorption at age 9 months of age. Low Folate. On plant enzymes for 1.5 years. Experienced bloat 2x and Pancreatitis. Switched to Enzyme Diane. TLI tested but never low. Diarrhea when off enzymes.
06/2019--cPL <50 (normal) SID-Tylan 3/8 tsp 2x/day. 1 tsp Pancreatin 6x per meal. Royal Canon Hydrolyzed Protein Dry Food

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Olesia711
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Location: North Carolina
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Re: New, sorting it out, curious about CBD oil

Post by Olesia711 » 30 Sep 2018, 12:01

just a thought.... for the itchy nose area..... try adding a tsp more of water to the food when you mix the enzymes in it... that might be enough further dilution to alleviate any caustic properties of the enzymes bothering the nose.

HOWEVER..... on the flip side, this may not be related to the enzymes... it could be something else.

If you want, take a pic of the nose and post in this thread.... we can all look at it to see if we have seen something like this before and if so, if EPI related or if something else. .... as we have seen many picture of many things here and sometimes other conditions pop up that someone recognizes as something else... and then you can discuss with your vet :)
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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Jean
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Posts: 1484
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: New, sorting it out, curious about CBD oil

Post by Jean » 30 Sep 2018, 13:31

the one thing I would add about pancreas, is that its not sterile, and it will vary in strength from one organ, to the next, and it might be difficult for the new owner to get it

but a big YES to the journal

jx
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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Riley's Mom
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Country: United States
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Re: New, sorting it out, curious about CBD oil

Post by Riley's Mom » 30 Sep 2018, 23:01

My girl was very put off by the enzymes in the beginning. I tried many things to get her to eat, but what ended up working was incubating in broth instead of water. I make bone broth and freeze most of it, bringing out containers as I need them. She absolutely refuses to eat food and enzymes incubated in water. A typical meal for her would be kibble, enzymes in broth with cheese sprinkled on top. So try to mix the enzymes in some other liquid that she tolerates.
Bone broth is super easy, just takes a little time. I actually save bones from our meals in the freezer until I have enough (and supplement from the butcher if needed), then put them in the crock pot with 4 Tbs of Braggs Apple Cider Vinegar, fill with water. Cook on low x24 hours. Throw the bones away, put the broth in containers. Freeze if you have too much and bring out as needed. I found a YouTube video of Dr Becker and use her method for making the broth.
Game changer for us. She's still a super picky eater, but this has certainly helped!
Elisabeth

Riley is a 10 year old Labradoodle. She was diagnosed with EPI in 2014.
She currently eats Taste of the Wild, I cup in the morning, 2 cups in the evening, each meal with 1 Wonderlabs B12 sprinkled over her dinner. Enzymes are EnzymeDiane, 1 tsp per cup of food, mixed in home made bone broth. No other supplements or meds at this time.
Riley currently weighs about 44 pounds, which is pretty heavy for her.

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Olesia711
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Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: New, sorting it out, curious about CBD oil

Post by Olesia711 » 01 Oct 2018, 14:24

Broth is an excellent idea!!!!!! I now use left over broth after i remove coagulated fat once i refrigerate it and poour on my dog
's meal... they LOVE it!!!!! Great idea and thanks for mentioning!


.... BUT..... everyone.... PLEASE do not use cider / apple cider mixed in with the enzymes as the cider (or any cider) will eat away at the enzymes.
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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