Welcome Jackie with Willow

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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jilbert57
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Welcome Jackie with Willow

Post by jilbert57 » 24 May 2022, 23:07

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DAE avatarjagurwin
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Re: New EPI Diagnosis - Feeling Overwhelmed...
Post Tue May 24, 2022 8:00 pm

Hi Everyone,
I am so lost and overwhelmed and not sure what to do about my poor pup. :(

I have an 8 year old Portuguese Water Dog, Willow, who has always had what we considered to be a sensitive stomach but any issues cleared up within a couple of days.
In February, we boarded our dog while on vacation and she came home with vomiting and diarrhea. I gave her a few days to recover and when she didn't I took her to the vet and was given antibiotics (metronidazole) and told it was just a bug from the kennel. We were still battling diarrhea 2 weeks later so I took her back in and they gave her some diagel and put her on Royal Canin Gastrointestinal food. About a week later we had a couple of days of solid poop and thought we were in the clear.
Unfortunately, we had to board her again and when we picked her up a week later she was a mess. She had lost a ton of weight (10 lbs on her 40 lb frame), her eyes were swollen and infected and she wouldn't eat or drink. I took her to the vet the next day and they were horrified. They put her on an IV, gave her metro again, an antiparasitic med, nausea meds, more diagel. She was so dehydrated her eyelids had rolled in and scratched up her eyes. A week later she was a bit better but still having liquid poop. Back to the vet for more tests and it was determined she had pancreatitis. They gave strict instructions on food (absolutely no table food, only the prescription Kibble and rice/turkey) and added Tylan powder. I asked them if more tests needed to be run and they said no, pancreatitis explained it all.

It's been 3 months now and she still has diarrhea. I am trying to get into the see a internal specialist vet in the area but the soonest we can get in is July 5th. I'm not sure she'll still be around then. She's wasting away. I took her to another vet for a second option and asked about EPI. She said it sounded likely (no tests run) and told me to order the Pancreplus to see if it helped. She also said to try a hydrolyzed protein kibble because she seems to have allergies so we are slowly transitioning to that.
Willow's been on the enzymes for just about a week and I was super excited the first day when she had a solid yet soft poop! Yay! Sign of relief.... until the next day when it went back to "Pudding" and now it's progressed back to water. I added the Tylan powder back in about 2 days ago but I feel like it made it worse. I don't know what else to do. My original vet is great but won't do much more, the 2nd vet just told me to tell her what I want to try and she'll order it. I think I'll call and ask for the TLI test to confirm EPI.

In the meantime, would upping the amount of enzyme I am giving her help? I am currently doing 1 tsp Pancreplus/cup of food and she eats 1/2 a cup about 6 times a day right now. The vet had mentioned smaller more frequent meals were better for pancreatitis. I am adding Tylan powder (1/8 tsp twice a day) and have Fortiflora at home but not sure if I should add that too. She doesn't drink a lot during the day but she does drink a lot when she does drink mostly at bedtime.

I feel like I'm trying to figure this out on my own. My husband thinks we are trying too many things and maybe he's right. He wants to just go back to the brand of food that she ate before we went on our February trip but from what the vet said, that's going to be too much fat. I'm not sure how long to keep going when something doesn't seem to be working so maybe I am changing it up too fast. Any advice???

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jilbert57
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Re: Welcome Jackie with Willow

Post by jilbert57 » 24 May 2022, 23:14

Hi Jackie, I would begin by having the vet run the Tli test to confirm or rule out Epi. Please have them run a colalamin(B12) and folate also.
Have they retested Willow to see if the pancreatitis has resolved itself?

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

Tuckaboo Pam
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Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: Welcome Jackie with Willow

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 25 May 2022, 10:27

Oh, Jackie, I feel so bad for you. Don't give up, though. If you are giving the enzymes & the Tylan while you wait for the official EPI fasting blood test, be sure you are giving the right amount of everything.

The 1 teaspoon enzymes to 1 cup of food is correct, and you will add enough liquid to dissolve the enzymes & allow the food to sit for 20 minutes before serving.

Tylan dose chart is here
https://epi4dogs.com/antibiotics/

And to complete the cocktail, you would also give a B12 capsule daily. Wonderlabs with Intrinsic Factor.

There can be other things to do, too, but these are the basics.

I started the routine before testing, also. Best luck, and be sure to keep asking all your questions, because this is a very helpful group and we've all been there. ---Pam & Tucker
Tucker was a shepherd/lab mix--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Took Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlabs B12 one capsule per day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon/ morning (to hold SID at bay). Taste of the Wild High Prairie, 1 1/2 cups/day, with a total of 4 cups of Fresh Pet. Stopped eating everything in sight, and went from 60 to 85 pounds! Tucker was my boyfriend, and my husband was OK with that. Tucker succumbed to hemangiosarcoma, but we cherished every day we had with that wonderful, beautiful boy. I will always, always miss my sweet big boy.

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Olesia711
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Re: Welcome Jackie with Willow

Post by Olesia711 » 25 May 2022, 20:23

Hi Jackie,

Definitely have your vet draw blood for a cTLI test. Just be sure to food fast Willow 12 hours prior to the blood being drawn for the TLI test. Usually they schedule the test in the morning. AND.... continue to give the enzymes.... they will not interfere with the TLI test for EPI.

... since we do not know if this is EPI or pancreatitis.... i don't know if we should advise you to give 1 tsp of enzymes per 1 cup of food (for EPI) or.... maybe you should try 1/2 tsp of enzymes per 1 cup of food (for Pancreatitis)... with Chronic Pancreatitis they DO give enzymes but "sometimes" not the full amount.
YOu can try both (on different days) and see if you see a difference.

HOWEVER.... i DO think your vet gave you a great suggestion regarding trying a hydrolyzed food.... food sensitivities may also be part of the issue.

THe problem is that you just want your dog to feel better...... so you start trying things... unfortunately if you try 2 r more things together, you have NO idea what is helping or hindering. I know first hand how difficult it is to figure out what in the world is going on..... but if you could do/try just one change at a time... give it 2 to 3 days and then go on to try the next change.... it will better help you to figure things out.

ALSO......write down EVERYTHING!!!!!!!! even exercise.... sometimes not enough exercise over all can give loose stools ... but on the flip side... some dogs will have loose stools after they get a bit of exercise... like in the beginning of the walk, stools are firm but by the end of a walk... they are soft........

Sometimes, it is because they are not getting enough fiber, sometimes it is a certain food or little suspected ingredient that is triggering loose stools. SOmetimes it is the gut flora that is out of whack and that is why the dog has loose stools.... BUT.... before trying a probiotic.... ask your vet first, because sometimes (if this is Pancreatitis and not EPI) you might not want to give a probiotic at this time......

here is a little chart of things that i keep track of that i use for my dog to see what triggers his occasional soft loose stools.......... i fill in a lot of details. Maybe something like this would help you too....
Cody sensitivity template 5-22.xlsx
(10.3 KiB) Downloaded 35 times
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

jagurwin

Re: Welcome Jackie with Willow

Post by jagurwin » 26 May 2022, 06:26

You guys are amazing. Thank you! I wasn't sure if I was supposed to start my own thread so I appreciate you doing it for me.

I managed to get Willow into her vet this afternoon to draw some bloodwork to test for EPI. I'm also going to have them recheck pancreatic enzymes and everything else that was mentioned. We stopped feeding her a 9 PM last night for her 2 PM appt today.

It appears she is on the right doses for everything so I guess that is good. And I am keeping things the same for about 3 days before I add/change anything. She threw up twice yesterday which she hasn't done in a while but seems to feel better now.

My vet said they have never seen a bout of pancreatitis last this long which is why it's making me think it's progressed to EPI. But they do say pancreatitis explains everything she's going through... just not for this long. She hasn't been tested for it in about a month so that will be interesting to see. I would have thought most EPI dogs essentially had pancreatitis as well, but maybe I don't understand it enough.

Also, I *finally* got a call back from another local internal medicine vet and they can get her in a little sooner which is great. Still almost a month away but better than 6 weeks.

I'll keep you posted with what the dr says.

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jilbert57
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Re: Welcome Jackie with Willow

Post by jilbert57 » 26 May 2022, 08:24

Good we will be awaiting the test results.
Just FYI pancreatitis can turn chronic and smolder for years, Then it is a matter of managing symptoms. Mickey was om enzymes, tylan and a pain mefication. His Pli was over 1000 and remained so till he passed.

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

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Olesia711
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Posts: 3858
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Welcome Jackie with Willow

Post by Olesia711 » 26 May 2022, 10:02

so glad you made an appt for him to be TLI tested for EPI.... looking forward to learning what the results are .
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

jagurwin

Re: Welcome Jackie with Willow

Post by jagurwin » 26 May 2022, 16:42

Just got back from the vet and the test results will take about a week (especially with the Memorial Day Holiday this weekend).

He did run the TLI, the B-12, and Folate. Definitely not cheap tests! :shock: I think the Vet techs were surprised I approved the cost because they asked me multiple times and warned me that it didn't include any medications he might add today.

He also ran her pancreatic enzymes and those are still abnormal. I don't have any specific results just "abnormal" and was told that her pancreatitis isn't under control yet. He recommended seeing an Internal Medicine Vet and I told him we had an appt in about a month.

He gave her some Cerenia and sent me home with 4 more days worth. The B-12 I ordered showed up today so I'll start it tomorrow.

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jilbert57
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State: Washington

Re: Welcome Jackie with Willow

Post by jilbert57 » 26 May 2022, 17:04

Thank you for the update. If you call the vet they will send you the lab results by email. It is good to have these so you can keep track of things also for reference.
With Mickeys chronic pancreatitis his Pli eas over 1000 and his Tli was >50. With use of the porcine enzymes with each meal his Tli came down to normal and remained around 24 but Pli remained high. He was on low fat diet, enzymes, tylan but no B12 as his was high.

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

User avatar
Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 3858
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Welcome Jackie with Willow

Post by Olesia711 » 26 May 2022, 19:16

glad you had the test done! keep us posted!
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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