Help! I need your guidance...

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
Post Reply
Croissantaubeurre
Member
Posts: 1
Country: United States
State: Arizona

Help! I need your guidance...

Post by Croissantaubeurre » 29 Sep 2018, 21:04

Hi there,
I need your guidance as I am not sure what to do next and where to start?!
Neo is our first fur baby and our fifth child (as stated in other posts, where is the difference anyway.. ;) ? He is an eleven month old Swiss white Shepherd and has been very healthy up to about six weeks ago when he started having loose stool. Even with a boiled rice and chicken diet (this had worked for him in the past) the diarrhea didn't improve and when he stopped eating altogether I took him to the Vet. They did a stool sample (there was blood in it) and results came back that he had been fighting off a parasite but that there wasn't any host found in him (please forgive, I don't remember the name of the parasite). The vet gave me some Metronidazole for one week but his loose stool didn't really improve but his appetite came back. I called the vet again and over the phone they gave me a three day dewormer and suggested fastening for 24 hours. No results. Actually, he lost his appetite again. I took him back in last week and they gave him a B12 shot and put him on Tylan for ten days. He started Tylan four days ago and after the B12 shot and the Tylan his stool went back to normal!

Now, my son was supposed to give him his Tylan but forgot to do this for 24 hours while I was away and his stool went back to being very loose...
No one at the Vet office ever talked about EPI to me... I am so grateful for this website! I am wondering whether our Neo could be an EPI candidate? They weighed him at the office but he didn't loose weight, he even gained some weight despite his diarrhea... They also gave me the ID food for dogs but I am not sure this helps at all. What should I do? what testing has to be done to determine if he has EPI? What medication does he have to take if he tests positive? I have the impression they are not very capable at the vet office... Thank you sooooo much for your guidance, help, advice!
Sophie and Neo

User avatar
Jean
Forum Director
Posts: 1707
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: Help! I need your guidance...

Post by Jean » 30 Sep 2018, 01:05

hi there and welcome to our world

we are from the UK,

the only definitive test for EPI is the cTLI blood test, this is a specific test, and needs to be 12 hours fasting, the test should also be for cobalamin and folate at the same time

EPI is totally manageable, we have been at it for 8 years and it becomes normal, and it could be that you have a candidate

however, this could be just a case of bad bugs in the gut, called SIBO (small intestinal bacterial overgrowth ), and Tylan will work wonders

so please let us know

Jean
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

User avatar
Miss Maddie Moo
Staff
Posts: 120
Country: United Kingdom - England

Re: Help! I need your guidance...

Post by Miss Maddie Moo » 30 Sep 2018, 07:41

As Jean has said SIBO (SID) is common in Shepherds as a stand alone issue so it could just be that or EPI is brewing you could try just the b12 and the tylan for 45 days and see what happens although with some dogs SIBo is a life long condition ...food can also be a culprit with SIBO as with EPI a grain free diet is recommended or a change of diet.Love the swiss whites.
Maddie DX April 2011 along with low B12 she was feed with a low fibre food below 3% , fat was not restricted ( she wasnt good on pea based foods ) She initially had a course of B12 shots weekly over a period of 6 months and then we used the B12 pills from Chemeyes in the UK . We used Panzym and slowly had to increase the dose as she aged when she was first DX she was 23kg but she gained weight quickly and got back to 33 kg .
Maddie gained her angel wings in Jan 2018 at the age of 10 to a condition unrelated to EPI.
[/color]

User avatar
jilbert57
Staff
Posts: 2092
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: Help! I need your guidance...

Post by jilbert57 » 30 Sep 2018, 10:06

Hi Sophie and Neo.
Glad you found your way to the forum. Please study the information on the site and while doing so pay special attention to:
1. Foods to feed, fiber being limited to 3,5% or less.
2. Enzymes that are available to buy that are great and need no script.
3. Antibiotic for SID
4. B12 level when testing. EPI dogs need to be near high 600 or so.

Ask for the B12 to be tested as well as the cTli Jean said.

Looking forward to helping !
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

User avatar
Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 3858
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Help! I need your guidance...

Post by Olesia711 » 30 Sep 2018, 11:52

Hi Sophia and Neo and welcome!!!

Glad Neo responded to the Tylan..... that indicates that there is/was an issue in the small intestine, especially since the Metronidazole didn't help.

SO..... does this mean EPI? Not necessarily. SID (small intestinal dysbioisis) formerly called SIBO.... can happen to dogs with EPI, IBD, IBS, Pancreatitis, PLE, etc, etc, etc.......the list just goes on and on and on.............

I am guessing the vet put Neo on Tylan twice a day for 45 days... that is the standard recommendation for Tylan for SID. However..... keep a close eye on Neo for any other symptoms you observe, start keeping and EPI log, not because this is necessarily EPI, but rather as a good template to know what to look for and how to keep good notes...... then you and your vet review and decide which condition you should further test for investigate,

Here are some examples of stuff.... for example if your vet thinks this may be EPI.... that would be a good 1st test (do the 12 hr food fast and draw the blood) to run if for nothing else, than eliminating EPI.....if not EPI then move on to to other things........ like possible IBD but before jumping to do an invasive scope, maybe try hydrolyzed foods- -or strip down the food to 2 ingredients and slowly add ingredients one at a time/closely observe via keeping a log/notes to see if this is a food allergy..... or.... if the vet leans more towards IBS, try introducing a little SLippery Elm powder (as a mucilage with SCFAs in it that has been proven to work in over 70% of the time with people with IBS)... Just a FYI... SLippery Elm also works (improves sloppy poos/improves gut flora) and in our observations it works also works on EPI, IBD & IBS in dogs too!) ... or if you ever see your pup doing the prayer bow... then maybe look into possible pancreatitis.... try low fat food for a while and see if that improves things.......

What i am trying to say (but tend to get long-winded.....) is that this may or may not be EPI, however.... don't just assume. There have been cases where dogs have died because the owner assumed it was EPI, treated it with EPI protocol and it was something else entirely (necropsy performed) that went untreated but could have been readily treated but wasn't all because it was "assumed" to be EPI.... sad unintended consequences............................

The the point is that by keeping good notes, making only 1-change-at-a-time.... you'd be amazed at how much information you can gather before running a bunch of expensive tests willy nilly.....better to run testes based on good observations :)

Hope this helps a little!

Please keep us posted on what you decide to do and feel free to ask questions.... we have helped more than just EPI parents figure out what may be going on. Also.... be sure to share with your vet anything/everything we suggest to you . The best care you and your your pup will get is when everyone works together.
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Patsy and 228 guests