Just been diagnosed with EPI :(

[xxlorrxx]

Well just had the vet confirm my 8 year old GSD has epi. His TLI levels are 1.2. He has been on enzymes for two weeks now and to be honest I don't really see any difference. I m wondering if the enzymes Im using are no good? They are called Mr pets. Can anyone recommend a good enzyme to use. The vet has recommended lytex but they are not available for 4 or 5 days and are quite expensive for continued use.

[Madelon]

I'm so sorry you have to be here but please know EPI is completely manageable and affordable and we are all here to help guide you along the way. I'm sure one of our members from across the pond will be on shortly but in the meantime, I believe the reason you are not seeing a difference is because the enzymes you are using are plant based. Because EPI dogs' pancreas no longer makes the enzymes they need more than a supplement, they need replacement enzymes. I believe most of the UK members use Lypex, Creon or the powder. Here's a link to a list of enzymes and where they are available https://epi4dogs.com/enzyme-list/ . Here is a link to the Chemeyes website where you can order what you need - they are a wonderful company https://www.chemeyes.co.uk/

Was the B12 tested also? Most EPI dogs have low B12 or will develop low B12 and supplementing is for life. Chemeyes also has the B12 pills you will need.

Hang in there the hard part is over now that you have a diagnosis the healing can begin.

[xxlorrxx]

Thank you. Yeah his B12 and bacteria are all normal, just the enzymes were very low.
The enzymes are pig based but maybe not strong enough. I am going to change to lytex until he s put some weight on but just wondered if there is any that are just as good and maybe not so expensive. Really didnt think they were working as his poop is still quite yellow, I was expecting his poop to be a more normal colour with the enzymes.

[Jean]

hi

we are from Liverpool, what part of Scotland are you ?

ok Mr Pets, they are a distributor, what exactly have you got in the way of enzymes

Lypex is very expensive, what was the story up to diagnosis, and any weight loss

we use Panzym abd have for 7 yrs prior to that Lypex

what level was the b12 result, and did they take a folate reading ?

normal, isnt normal in the EPI world

is there any tummy rumbling

I am more than happy to talk to you, please let me know

start a journal and record everything you do, or see



Jean

[xxlorrxx]

Hi Jean
Im in Dundee. The stuff is called Dr Mercola digestive enzymes. It was bought on amazon if that helps.
Yeah his belly does rumble and grumble, but not as much since he was put on the enzymes.

He s lost loads of weight he was 40kg then in March I took him to the vet as i noticed he was losing muscle especially on his spine. The vet weighed him and said he s 38.6kg and as he s 8 a little muscle loss is normal and he didnt think there was anything wrong. I took him back to the vet last week as his poo had changed, he did have diarrhoea but a change of diet sorted it but it was still a strange colour and that s when he was weighted again and he was 32.4kg so he s lost over 6kg in 7 months.

Im not sure what the foliate reading is. But she did say he doesn't need antibiotics and the B12 was normal also that he didnt need pro biotics.

I will look up Panzym, do you think they are just as good as Lytex? Not really got time to trial and error with him as his weight loss is so dramatic.

[Patsy]

Hello from Sheffield
Sometimes I want to bang my head on the wall because of the apparent majority of vets not familiar with epi, even with Gsd’s which are a breed predisposed to it. At least you have the diagnosis, and now you must find out your B12 and folate results. Then politely invite your vet to study the research on this website! If they want to learn, that’s great, if they won’t, then consider phoning round to ask other Vets if they have experience or an interest in it. You are going to have to be proactive now you have an epi dog. You are spending a lot of money on a professional , so you need a partnership. No one is perfect, and you have to be able to discuss your knowledge and theirs’.

I’m assuming you’ve been doing a lot of browsing, so
1. You must, must, must. have porcine enzymes....Lypex capsules, pricey because you may need 3 per meal, not as written on the box(ask Jean!). Or panzym powder which is very reliable , though smelly. All enzymes can be bought from online sites like Vetuk, and they are considerably cheaper than from your vet, and do not need a prescription.
2. B12 injections if your dog’s levels are below 600. Normal dogs are allowed 300, not EPIdogs.
3. The protocol for epi says to begin with an antibiotic. Tylan is tricky to get in the uk, oxytetracycline is ok, or metro. Epi. Is different and it is recommended to have 4weeks of it instead of the normal 2 weeks.
4. Food. Grain free, low fibre. There are plenty of options .

Now you know how to be prepared to talk with your vet. Good luck! Let us know how you get on

[xxlorrxx]

Im actually quite annoyed that I went to the vets after only 2kg of weight loss and it wasnt picked up on but in his defence he did ask how his poos were and at the time they were normal. The vet last week pretty much knew straight away what it was but he d lost 6kg in 7 months so it was pretty obvious. So he s had all the other tests done and vet said he doesn't at the moment need B12, probiotics or anti biotics.
I m about to order Panzym its saying recommend dose is roughly 5 gram a day for Sabre s size.

What s going to be tricky though is judging if its working as Sabre is no longer having diarrhoea since I changed his food from dry to forth glade wet food. There is that much bone and marrow content in it that its hardened his poos up but they are still really yellow and greasy looking. He is being fed enzymes at the moment and they are porcine but not sure of the quality of them so best to get him on a known and trusted brand.

[Patsy]

You said it’s Dr Mercola digestive enzymes, and it’s small print says for healthy dogs. I’ve looked online and they only contain 500 USP units of lipase per gm which is very weak. You can safely use a lot more, other preparations start at 2000.
‘All about dog food .co.uk’ website is useful for identifying suitable food, all the ingredients and proportions.
Forthglade is heavy on peas, my little non Epi dog spat them out because they were hard, so I wouldnt have given it to Marti.
She did however thrive on chappie tins for a while, gaining weight, until she couldn’t tolerate rice. If you have a good dry food, you can always soak it to go soggy. A mention here is that the UK enzymes are not soaked in the food, but US ones are. Ours will digest and reduce food to sick in half an hour, not nice!
It’s a lot to take in at first, Be patient, and you will see a gradual improvement. It’s all in the poo.

[Jean]

hi there Patsy

ok so what is your name

ask ASAP what the b12 ( cobalamin ) result was

that "enzyme" is of no use at all to an EPI dog, we use Panzym, and have never noticed any smell, Pancrex however is a different story, steer clear

this is a very short precis in Kara and EPI

At 5 months old she was 20 kilos, at 14 months she was 19 kilos, so I really understand your stress on weight loss , she is now hovering at 40 kilos, Kara was a mess, the vets at Liverpool University refused a prognosis, just massively emaciated

Lypex is massively expensive, it tells you on the box 1 capsule , at one point we were using 5 per meal ! they are capsules with enteric coated microspheres inside, the capsules HAVE to be broken open, and shaken over the food, and then mixed in, the lowest amount was 3 per meal

it is a brilliant drug, but we couldnt afford it

Panzym is a better option it comes in powder form and you can go on line to find a good outlet, Kara started on 1/4 teaspoon per meal, she is now up to a teaspoon, but this is over a few years

https://www.panzym.co.uk/

the prices on here are very competitivel

most of us Brits use it, and have done for a long time , and it was one of your fellow Scot who trialed it for us, she is in S Lanark, and one of my dearest friends

I will ask Ann to chime in on recommendation

now

NO FOOD of any description without enzyme, no treats for now, and it is recommended that you feed 150% of the guide on the food for what Sabre SHOULD weigh over several meals in the short term

we recommend Grain free food with no rice as it seems to agree with our dogs better, Pets at Home has a very good selection, I see there is one in Dundee

I can happily recommend Panzym, 100%

just a heads up, none of our enzymes need to be incubated prior to serving, just mix and serve, we add some wet food just to mix properly, but only a tablespoon, a meal

I am afraid it is trial and error, no two animals react the same

one example, Kara had 1/4 tspoon Panzym my friend's dog needed 7 teaspoons, and when on Lypex, 8 per meal

you will make it, trust me

start your journal ASAP

Ask anything

Jean

[xxlorrxx]

Thanks for that Patsy. Yeah I did suspect it wasnt as strong. I bought it before he was diagnosed so was just trying it out. I have ordered Panzym but it won't arrive until Tuesday or Wednesday so just trying to figure out just now how much more of the Dr Mercola stuff to give him until the Panzym arrives.

Your right says for healthy pets, which Sabre at the moment is definitely not. You said that you looked it up online and the Lipase was 500 and the proper enzymes is 2000USP.

The ingredients on the tub I have are different they are :

Papain (papaya) 300 000 USP
Alpha Amylase (porcine pancreas) 200 000 EU
Typsin (porcine pancreas) 95 000 USP
Lipase(porcine pancreas) 20 000 USP
Bromelain ( pineapple stems) 60 GDU

Says to give 4g a day for a big dog. I was giving him 2g with 600g of wet food twice a day and have changed since yesterday morning to 2g mixed with 400g of food 3 times a day. I ll see how he goes today.