Enzymes-My pup smells awful!

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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Olesia711
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Posts: 3858
Location: North Carolina
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Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Enzymes-My pup smells awful!

Post by Olesia711 » 09 Dec 2018, 10:04

Caroline,

My suggestion to you regarding Tylan & SLippery Elm is as follows:

"SLippery Elm is a mucilage so it will very very slightly inhibit a little of the Tylan. Usually it is so slight, that i don't worry about giving it together, HOWEVER.... in your case, i personally would err on the side of caution and give the slippery elm 2 hrs away from the Tylan."

Regarding the food.......would you be willing...... but run this by your vet first... to try a simple stripped down whole meal... just for a week or two and if it works THEN add necessary vitamins, minerals & bone that is needed for a balanced diet.

If your vet would agree.... see if you can try feeding nothing more (just for 1 -2 weeks only to try)
1. 50% minced baked skinned and de-fatted chicken breast
2. 50% nuked, skinned and mashed sweet potato

if the above works, then we can help you add necessary ingredients to create a balanced diet....................
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

Caroline831

Re: Enzymes-My pup smells awful!

Post by Caroline831 » 09 Dec 2018, 15:42

I'd be willing to try that... the only problem is that I am again looking at the holidays and will need to keep things as simple as possible for a sitter. I may end up spending the holidays here because it would be simpler (but also mildly lonely) with Loo not feeling well, but my whole family is on the East coast.

I could try it now, and just see how she does for a week or so...

It's such a convoluted and time consuming process to care for her right now... It's hard to see how i can have someone else do it correctly! :?

She seems uninterested in the dry food really. Yesterday, I added some Zignatures venison from a sample and she was interested in that. This am, she was somewhat interested, but seemed a little less exciting. She'll still eat canned food, but when i mix it with Kibble, she won't always eat everything. With the Creon, if she hasn't eaten the food, how quickly should I toss it vs leave it out longer?

She's been on Tylan at higher dose for about 10 days. She hasn't had any episodes where she is crying or climbing on me and stretching in pain, but she definitely still does a bunch of lip smacking, yawning. Earlier, I think I read someone said I should notice significant improvement after about a week and if not, to switch it at that point... Is it worth waiting another week before doing this?

Here's a pic of her morning poo! It looks good to me, but then again, her poops are typically decent. It's the upper stuff that's problematic.
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User avatar
Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 3858
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Enzymes-My pup smells awful!

Post by Olesia711 » 10 Dec 2018, 16:55

Those poos are decent.... so my guess is that the higher dose of Tylan is working.
However your comment that the low interest in food and lip smacking is still a concern..... my thought at this point, after seeing the poop picture is that maybe we are barking up the wrong tree.

Maybe the lack of food interest and lip smacking is because something is going (hurting in the tummy) but it may not be SID specifically that is causing these two issues.....

what i would do is try feeding her just baked (skinned and defatted) chicken breast with nuked (skinned and mashed) sweet potato.... where i am going with this is that maybe the fat content & grain is upsetting / hurting her tummy. think just trying 2 simple / plain ingredients for a limited amount of time will not hurt...

ratio 50% each.

Look on the bag of food you are feeding her with now and tell me how many calories a day she should be getting... and i will work out the portions for you of Sweet POtato & CHicken breast
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

Caroline831

Re: Enzymes-My pup smells awful!

Post by Caroline831 » 11 Dec 2018, 22:45

So the thing is, her poops have never really been problematic. At some points, they were a little bit softer, but I also wonder if that was because I was trying to give her like 19 different things (cottage cheese, yogurt, cheese, chicken broth, baby food etc).

She has been eating her food fairly well the past couple of meals. If i add some of the canned food on top, she will typically eat all of it now that i've started using the Creon.

She's been eating Purina EN Gasteroenteric (https://www.proplanveterinarydiets.com/ ... teric-dog/). I give her about 1 cup in the AM and 1 cup in the evening (399 kcal/cup).

User avatar
Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 3858
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Enzymes-My pup smells awful!

Post by Olesia711 » 12 Dec 2018, 10:20

WAHOO!!!!! This is a great report.
Now... when you have time....maybe after the holidays..... talk to your vet. Explain to him that you have been using CREON as the pancreatic enzyme source and it is working :)

Ask him if he would consider writing prescription for CREON..

If so... i would order the CREON from Canada (way cheaper!!) with a prescription you can order from:
https://www.planetdrugsdirect.com/drugs/creon


For now it appears that CREON 10,000 works so that is what i would stick with
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

Caroline831

Re: Enzymes-My pup smells awful!

Post by Caroline831 » 14 Dec 2018, 21:13

I think i must have done the slippery elm wrongly because she was clearly uncomfortable, lip smacking, climbing on me, yawning... It was worse than without it...

Did i not put it in enough food? more water maybe? I wasn't sure if i should give it with her meal and then give tylan later or vise versa...

User avatar
Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 3858
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Enzymes-My pup smells awful!

Post by Olesia711 » 14 Dec 2018, 23:24

It is possible that she may not need the slippery elm at this juncture .... maybe try a few days without it...

But yes, when you give slippery elm you must add water or some sort of liquid as it is a mucilage and will thicken everything.

However, lip smacking is usually an indication of an upset tummy....- -unless you did not use any liquid with the slippery elm then her mouth may have been sticky inside...........
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

Caroline831

Re: Enzymes-My pup smells awful!

Post by Caroline831 » 19 Dec 2018, 23:29

Update on loo... I'm fairly certain her smell has gone away....or at least dissipated! amazing!

She is still having gurgly belly, some signs of possible nausea. Not exactly sure why...

She only hadthe slippery elm one time and she had the bad reaction, but it could have been not enough water. I tried another time, btu she did NOT want to eat the food when I added it.

User avatar
Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 3858
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Enzymes-My pup smells awful!

Post by Olesia711 » 20 Dec 2018, 19:23

yea... not enough liquid to sufficiently moisten the slippery elm powder would make one smack their lips for sure.......... but not sure about the tummy issue.

Glad to hear that over all.... things are improving...... give things time to heal/settle out and be sure to tell the vet that you are using CREON and that it is working. :)
(in other words you are going to need your vet to write a script for you for CREON) :)
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

Caroline831

Re: Enzymes-My pup smells awful!

Post by Caroline831 » 22 Dec 2018, 14:00

After meals, she typically burps, licks her lips. Last night, she was obviously uncomfortable to the point of not being able to settle down for the first time in about a week. Ended up giving her some meds. Doesn't have a huge appetite, even with the B12 and creon working and Tylan regularly 375mg. I am leaving tomorrow until Thursday. She will be in good hands, but if I"m going to change anything, itll be after I get back. She's been eating kibble with some wet food mixed in. Sometimes, she'll eat the whole thing and other times, she'll just eat the wet food. I'm going to get more of the wet food and just have the sitter give her more wet food and hopefully that will make her eat more.

I'm kind of wondering if EPI isn't the only thing or main thing going on. She just doesn't fit the profile. Never lost weight, never had the cowpie poops. Occasionally, she'd have episodes of diarhea, but typically it would be a reaction to something. I feel like she's got the upper indigestion stuff more than anything. Another vet mentioned that it's possible she could have IBD or something else in addition. Possibly that the food stays too long in her stomach and that's causing problems.

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