Peeing ALOT

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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Olesia711
Founder
Posts: 951
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy

Re: Peeing ALOT

Post by Olesia711 » 03 Dec 2018, 18:41

Over 82% of all dogs with EPI have insufficient B12 levels... and even the EPI dogs, if their B12 is normal when they are initially diagnosed... they too will eventually need B12 supplementation. Once an EPI dog needs B12, they will need it for life- -the only difference is that once you bring the levels up... then you can give a smaller dose / frequency of B12 jsut to maintain the upper mid-range B12 levels.

Since you are in Bulgaria.... can you import products from the UK? If yes, i would go online and order these special B12 pills (made with Methycobalamin B12, Folate and Intrinsic Factor)
https://www.chemeyes.co.uk/product/chem ... -100-caps/
... and i would start giving these to Nora daily. At Nora's weight, open one of these 1000mcg B12 capsules... and give Nora 1/2 capsule daily mixed in with her food.

I think you should be able to get these pill shippedd to Bulgaria, but just in case you cannot, please let us know and we will try to work out something else for you..

And yes..... with an EPI dog, we now know that they can and should gain back "most" or all of their weight once you find the right balance of EPI protocol. As others have mentioned, there is a good possibility that the weight will not be fully gained back until you start giving B12. My guess is that Nora's B12 levels are not upper mid-range ... where they need to be with an EPI dog.

Regarding the continued peeing.... is it the same or getting a little worse???
Can you ask your vet to test for a UTI (urinary tract infection)... as a UTI could be what is going on and need treatment with antibiotics.... or.... it can still be the enzymes.... and you just have to wait a little longer for it to go away..... but.... i would hate to assume it is "EPI -related" and then find out that Nora has a UTI that should have been treated all along.......................

Also......although i do not know if this is the same in dogs..... but i just doubled checked and if a person has low B12 it can make them pee excessively..... so.... not sure, but if the same can happen in a dog, then that may be another reason why Nora is having excessive peeing ....... since most EPI dogs have insufficient B12 and Nora has not been treated for it.
Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Doing great 12+ years later! Once stable at 3+ months, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each cup of food, but as she aged- -had to go back 1 tsp enzymes per cup of food. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil / fish oil daily .... until she developed Diabetes and she now cannot tolerate higher fat foods. Currently feed an 80% home-made diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, 1/3 of a raw egg, fat free cottage cheese, fish oil+vitamins and bone meal with 20% Annamaet Lean & Grain Free kibble. This combo has regulated her Diabetes (takes Vetsulin) and EPI and is very well managed. In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. This is when we discovered that she also developed Diabetes & Low Thyroid. Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the generosity of folks on Epi4dogs! Izzy continues to wake up every day full of joy. I am not a vet. All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal experiences, observations, information gleaned from EPI researchers & pet parents alike, and EPI research. Please share with your vet everything we suggest.

K.vitanova
Member
Posts: 13
Country: Bulgaria
Pet name: Nora

Re: Peeing ALOT

Post by K.vitanova » 04 Dec 2018, 02:09

I am going to another vet tomorrow. Hopefully he knows more about EPI and wants to do the test So I have a better understanding of her condition. We will do a test for UTI and I will insist of doing B12 as well

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Jean
Staff
Posts: 772
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara
My name: Jean

Re: Peeing ALOT

Post by Jean » 04 Dec 2018, 08:20

its a shame when you have to this, but if needs must

write down everything so you dont forget

Jean
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We use Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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Olesia711
Founder
Posts: 951
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy

Re: Peeing ALOT

Post by Olesia711 » 04 Dec 2018, 11:07

Glad you are going to another vet.

It doesn't matter if a vet knows a lot of EPI or not.... BUT.... what is very important is that you have a vet that will work with you and LISTEN to what you have to say and one that will share their medical knowledge with you .... someone who you can show the actual and current EPI veterinarian research that we have on our website so that he /she can make better and more informed decisions about how to "try" treating your EPI dog.

THe problem with EPI is that yes there are some standard protocols.... BUT....each dog is a little different, so many times what happens is that one part or another part of the standard protocol has to be tweaked/adjusted to better suit an individual EPI dog before you see optimal response to treatment..... and THIS is where some vets fail..... often because they just don't have the time to spend on every little thing with an EPI dog.

This is also another reason why it is very helpful to keep an EPI log so that you can show it to your vet and both you and your vet can work thru what the next step should be, what might need adjusting or trying.... so that the dog can get optimally better.

Again, glad you are going to try another vet. please keep us posted.



,
Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Doing great 12+ years later! Once stable at 3+ months, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each cup of food, but as she aged- -had to go back 1 tsp enzymes per cup of food. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil / fish oil daily .... until she developed Diabetes and she now cannot tolerate higher fat foods. Currently feed an 80% home-made diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, 1/3 of a raw egg, fat free cottage cheese, fish oil+vitamins and bone meal with 20% Annamaet Lean & Grain Free kibble. This combo has regulated her Diabetes (takes Vetsulin) and EPI and is very well managed. In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. This is when we discovered that she also developed Diabetes & Low Thyroid. Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the generosity of folks on Epi4dogs! Izzy continues to wake up every day full of joy. I am not a vet. All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal experiences, observations, information gleaned from EPI researchers & pet parents alike, and EPI research. Please share with your vet everything we suggest.

User avatar
Olesia711
Founder
Posts: 951
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy

Re: Peeing ALOT

Post by Olesia711 » 04 Dec 2018, 13:52

I just heard back from Cameron at Chemeyes, LLC regarding sending their B12 capsules (with Methylcobalamin B12, Folate & Intrinsic Factor) to Bulgaria,.... and he said YES!!!! They do ship to Bulgaria and that they actually have some clients there

This is good news for Nora and you :)

If you want, just contact Cameron directly and tell him that you are the Epi4Dogs client in Bulgaria that i wrote about :)

This is Cameron's email address: sales@chemeyes.co.uk

here is the B12 on their website :
https://www.chemeyes.co.uk/product/chem ... -100-caps/
Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Doing great 12+ years later! Once stable at 3+ months, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each cup of food, but as she aged- -had to go back 1 tsp enzymes per cup of food. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil / fish oil daily .... until she developed Diabetes and she now cannot tolerate higher fat foods. Currently feed an 80% home-made diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, 1/3 of a raw egg, fat free cottage cheese, fish oil+vitamins and bone meal with 20% Annamaet Lean & Grain Free kibble. This combo has regulated her Diabetes (takes Vetsulin) and EPI and is very well managed. In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. This is when we discovered that she also developed Diabetes & Low Thyroid. Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the generosity of folks on Epi4dogs! Izzy continues to wake up every day full of joy. I am not a vet. All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal experiences, observations, information gleaned from EPI researchers & pet parents alike, and EPI research. Please share with your vet everything we suggest.

K.vitanova
Member
Posts: 13
Country: Bulgaria
Pet name: Nora

Re: Peeing ALOT

Post by K.vitanova » 04 Dec 2018, 14:16

Thanks a lot! We are going to test her B12 on Thursday with the new vet. Today we got the results from the urine test and everything is fine - no UTI, no renal problems. I am so glad to finally hear some good news

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Olesia711
Founder
Posts: 951
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy

Re: Peeing ALOT

Post by Olesia711 » 04 Dec 2018, 14:44

that is great news on all the other tests, especially no renal issues.... that always concerns me, at least with a UTI that can be fixed via antibiotics. But good that she doesn't have either problem.

Just a FYI... since you gave B12 pills Sunday.... you should wait 1 week before B12 testing (give no more pill a week before you test the B12)

Also... when was the last time she had a B12 shot.... as you are supposed to wait 4 weeks after last B12 shot before testing the B12

If you test before... then the results will be higher than what they actually are.

Glad you are seeing a new vet :)

Please be sure to share everything we suggest to you with the new vet .
Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Doing great 12+ years later! Once stable at 3+ months, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each cup of food, but as she aged- -had to go back 1 tsp enzymes per cup of food. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil / fish oil daily .... until she developed Diabetes and she now cannot tolerate higher fat foods. Currently feed an 80% home-made diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, 1/3 of a raw egg, fat free cottage cheese, fish oil+vitamins and bone meal with 20% Annamaet Lean & Grain Free kibble. This combo has regulated her Diabetes (takes Vetsulin) and EPI and is very well managed. In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. This is when we discovered that she also developed Diabetes & Low Thyroid. Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the generosity of folks on Epi4dogs! Izzy continues to wake up every day full of joy. I am not a vet. All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal experiences, observations, information gleaned from EPI researchers & pet parents alike, and EPI research. Please share with your vet everything we suggest.

K.vitanova
Member
Posts: 13
Country: Bulgaria
Pet name: Nora

Re: Peeing ALOT

Post by K.vitanova » 04 Dec 2018, 16:54

I haven’t given her any B12 ever because our old vet said she didn’t need it without even testing her. That is our first B12 test. Do you know if we have to do the test before breakfast?

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Olesia711
Founder
Posts: 951
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy

Re: Peeing ALOT

Post by Olesia711 » 04 Dec 2018, 17:14

Oh... okay... my misunderstanding...

The is very good news because now you can test Thursday. :)

I know you are supposed to "food" fast when the blood is being drawn for the TLI (EPI) test.... and we typically recommend that they draw enough blood at the same time to test the B12................ so.... just to be on the safe side..... yes.... i would not feed breakfast and just give a meal after the B12 blood test.
Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Doing great 12+ years later! Once stable at 3+ months, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each cup of food, but as she aged- -had to go back 1 tsp enzymes per cup of food. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil / fish oil daily .... until she developed Diabetes and she now cannot tolerate higher fat foods. Currently feed an 80% home-made diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, 1/3 of a raw egg, fat free cottage cheese, fish oil+vitamins and bone meal with 20% Annamaet Lean & Grain Free kibble. This combo has regulated her Diabetes (takes Vetsulin) and EPI and is very well managed. In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. This is when we discovered that she also developed Diabetes & Low Thyroid. Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the generosity of folks on Epi4dogs! Izzy continues to wake up every day full of joy. I am not a vet. All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal experiences, observations, information gleaned from EPI researchers & pet parents alike, and EPI research. Please share with your vet everything we suggest.

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