Epi e diabete

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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Caterina
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Posts: 2
Location: Bagheria
Country: Italy

Epi e diabete

Post by Caterina » 28 Dec 2018, 06:15

Buongiorno,
Scrivo per il mio cane...
Ruben simil pastore, deve fare due anni a gennaio...da aprile diabetico in trattamento con insulina, da circa due mesi vomito e feci strane e abbondanti. Dopo vari tentativi, un ricovero e la mia insistenza facciamo esami per tli, b12 e folati. Diagnosi insufficienza pancreatica per cui inizio con Lipex (abbiamo iniziato da circa 10giorni) una ad ogni pasto. Il veterinario non mi aveva dato b12 perché entro i limiti seppur al limite inferiore ma me la inserita solo mercoledì. Mi aspettavo una ripresa di peso che invece non c è seppur le feci sono migliorate...per Natale ci siamo spostati di casa ed è ricomparsa la diarrea che gli ha fatto perdere un altro chilo e mezzo..
Inoltre, il cane da quando è diabetico mangia orzo, piselli e carne e il veterinario mi ha detto di continuare così mentre ho letto che il cane cin epi non dovrebbe assumere cereali e fibre..
Nelle feci l orzo è sempre stato intero, e ultimamente anche la carne...
Consigli?aiuto..

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Jean
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Posts: 840
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara
My name: Jean

Re: Epi e diabete

Post by Jean » 28 Dec 2018, 07:59

Hi there

this was originally in Italian, but we have the translator, thankfully

Good morning,
I write for my dog ...
Ruben like shepherd must do two years in January ... April diabetes treated with insulin, for about two months and strange vomiting and loose stools. After several attempts, a shelter and my insistence we do tests for tli, B12 and folate. Pancreatic insufficiency diagnosis that begins with Lipex (we started from about 10days) one with each meal. The vet had not given me b12 because the extent albeit at the lower end but me fit only Wednesday. I expected a gain in weight that instead there is even the stools have improved ... for Christmas we moved house and reappeared diarrhea which caused him to lose another kilo and a half ..
In addition, the dog since he is diabetic eats barley, peas and meat and the vet told me to keep going while I read that the dog should not take cin epi cereals and fibers ..
In faeces the barley was always full, and lately even meat ...
Tips? help ..

ok and welcome from the uk



what sort of weight of food are you feeding per meal, 1 Lypex might not be enough

I have no knowledge of diabetes, but there those here who have

a house move could have brought on a problem

if you will let me kn ow

Jean
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We use Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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jilbert57
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Posts: 885
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: Epi e diabete

Post by jilbert57 » 28 Dec 2018, 10:52

Welcome to you and your pup. You read it right, EPI dogs usually do better without grains, and a fiber content under 4%. Sorry, I have not dealt with diabetes. As far as B12, your pup needs to be at the high end of the normal level, not lower or middle.
My name is Jill and I live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. I have two dogs: Kiya is an aussie/blue heeler and is 13, TJ is a 4 year old Jack Russell. They keep me on my toes.
Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.
6/1999 - 8/2014

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Olesia711
Founder
Posts: 1003
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy

Re: Epi e diabete

Post by Olesia711 » 28 Dec 2018, 10:58

Hi.

I and welcome to our EPI forum. Sorry your dog has EPI.

1. Try to avoid foods that has multiple types of peas in it. Peas are very disagreeable with EPI dogs.
2. Try using foods made with sweet potato instead of barley (or any other grain)

Because your dog is also a diabetic.... it is difficult to balance both EPI + Diabetes.
What i do is use 20% commercial kibble and 80% home-made food (lean meat, cottage cheese, eggs, sweet potato) and i add a good dog vitamin+ mineral pill, fish oil, and bone meal.

3, Because Diabetes suggests using more fiber and EPI suggests limiting fiber.... you do the best you can This is why i use 20% commercial food and the rest is home-made so that i can better control both the diabetes and the EPI. When looking at commercial dog food, check out the fiber content (even with no grains, there is still fiber from the other fillers/vegetables/fruit) and look at foods with 4% or less fiber content.

4. With Diabetes, because you have to give food that may not be ideal for EPI, what you do is give a little more enzymes to compensate for non-ideal EPI food.

5. All dogs need fat, but with a lot of Diabetes dogs, we have noticed that they do much better on low fat diets... although all dogs should still have some fat...... but in this case you have to be careful what kind of fat... so.... fish oil supplements work very well for both EPI and Diabetes dogs. I personally found that keeping the fat content (from a commercial food) under 10% works much better at keeping the Diabetes under good control.

6. Especially with Diabetes, you have to watch for infections.... and this includes gut flora bacterial imbalance. If once you have the dog on a good diet, and you are using enough enzymes (Lypex is the right kind- -but you might not be using enough) with every single meal. If you notice repeated loose stools, farting/gas, spitting up, vomiting, not eating, stomach makes noises - -if any of these happen repeatedly.... then your dog needs antibiotics to get the SID (small intestinal dysbiosis) under better control. We first recommend Tylosin Tartrate 100 grams (twice a day with meals for 45 days), if your vet cannot get that, ask your vet to look into Oxytetracycline.... many vets use Metronidazole, but it does not always work.....

Once the gut flora is under good control, then ask your vet to prescribe a prebiotic & probiotic to keep the gut under good control going forward....... This can be started after the antibiotics are completed..... or.... halfway thru the antibiotic regimen HOWEVER.. then give the probiotics 2 hours away from the antibiotic.

Hope this helps a little.

If you want..... look for foods and post here what you find and we will try to help you with it. For my EPI + Diabetes dog.... food low in fiber, low in fat but high in protein and home-made added (lots of protein) seems to work best .

I also emailed this response to you privately ...
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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Jean
Staff
Posts: 840
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara
My name: Jean

Re: Epi e diabete

Post by Jean » 28 Dec 2018, 12:13

Thank you so much Olesia

jx
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We use Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

Caterina
Member
Posts: 2
Location: Bagheria
Country: Italy

Re: Epi e diabete

Post by Caterina » 29 Dec 2018, 05:01

Grazie mille...vi faccio sapere come va...
Siete gentilissimi...
Grazie
Caterina

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Jean
Staff
Posts: 840
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara
My name: Jean

Re: Epi e diabete

Post by Jean » 29 Dec 2018, 09:25

you are welcome Caterina
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We use Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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