Newly diagnosed Pug

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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Bruinwar
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Posts: 9
Country: United States
State: Michigan

Newly diagnosed Pug

Post by Bruinwar » 29 Dec 2018, 16:58

Hello,

About 8 weeks ago our Pug, Shadow, started behaving strangely, had loose yellow stools, & was losing weight. The vet said it was highly unlikely she had EPI & had us try different treatments. After 4-5 weeks of continued problems, she was diagnosed with EPI (by a different vet). We are very happy to locate this website & we've been reading it all day today. But we have a problem.

The treatment is as follows:
Continue Proviable, Denamarin, and Ursodiol as prescribed
Starting: Pancreatic enzyme at 3/4 teaspoon mixed with food twice daily for life, dose based on response
Tylosin 2700g/tsp - 1/10 teaspoon mixed with food twice daily for 2 weeks then call to update

We ordered the (quite pricey) enzyme powder & it was delivered yesterday.
The Problem: The enzyme appears to be burning her mouth/snout. Her snout has actually reddened. This causes the most food oriented dog I've ever seen to not eat.

My wife finally got her to eat the 3rd bowl this afternoon by putting yogurt in it. Any suggestions are welcome. Should we get a capsule filler machine & give her the enzyme just before her meals? Yes, we understand it is not as effective but not getting it into her is worse.

Thanks in advance,
Joe & Ingrid

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Jean
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Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara
My name: Jean

Re: Newly diagnosed Pug

Post by Jean » 29 Dec 2018, 22:25

hi there Joe and Ingrid

the enzymes in US can be a bit caustic

what weight is your Pug ? Tylan is weight dosed

use a flat ish glass dish for food, less chance of the muzzle getting into it

give an ice cube after food to wash the mouth out, or a spray bottle of water to wash out the mouth, and muzzle

look up Enzyme Diane

https://enzymediane.com/ for cheaper, discounted enzymes

live yogurt is a good one

why Proviable, Denamarin, and Ursodiol as prescribed, ? these are usually for liver issues, my girl with Liver issues uses both

and certainly the use of capsules might work, especially with a short nosed dog

was b12 discussed ? our dogs usually need supplementation,

keep a journal and record everything you do

how many times a day do you feed ? and how much ?

if weight loss, then feed 150% of the recommended food over a few small meals, for the weight the dog SHOULD be, all enzymed for the short term

what food are you using ? we recommend grain and rice free, with a fibre content of under 4%, and some cannot tollerate chicken, or its derivitives

what is the dogs name ?

love the picture

keep in touch

Jeanxxxxx
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We use Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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Kodis Mom
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Location: Custer, WA.
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State: Washington

Re: Newly diagnosed Pug

Post by Kodis Mom » 29 Dec 2018, 23:15

Hello and welcome !!!Shadow is a real cutie !
Jean has asked all of the questons needed. Are you putting the food in a flat glass plate, adding some lukewarn water and enzymes and letting it sit for a mimimun of 20 minutes ? EPI can be overwhelming in the beginning and oh so stressful. Trust me , we have all been in your shoes. Ask any questions, and feel free to print info and share with your vet, in fact we encourage it. Ask any question.. it is a 24 hour worldwide totally volenteer site !
Kodi
B. 8/19/2010 Diagnosed at 11 months.
Kodi is now on Natures Logic turkey and/or pork kibble, 2 cups with 2 teaspoons of enzymes, 1/8 teaspoon of ground coriander, 1/16 teaspoon of cinnamon and ground fennel seed (for tummy upsets) twice a day, plus one one B12 capsule from Wonderlabs. She has been very stable and on occasion needs a dose ofTylan.
She is our second GSD with EPI. It was not so scary this time ! And thank goodness for epi4dogs.com !

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Jean
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Location: South Liverpool
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Pet name: Kara
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Re: Newly diagnosed Pug

Post by Jean » 30 Dec 2018, 04:15

i forgot the 30 mins incubation, in my defence, it was 3.00 am this morning

j
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We use Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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Bruinwar
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Posts: 9
Country: United States
State: Michigan

Re: Newly diagnosed Pug

Post by Bruinwar » 30 Dec 2018, 06:28

Greetings,

Thanks for the great suggestions !
Shadow will be 9 years in March.
In answer to the questions about her meds, she had very elevated liver enzymes. We were then referred to an internist, where further bloodwork showed she had EPI. Hopefully, her liver enzymes will return to normal, and will no longer require these.
Yes, this is overwhelming! After the relief of knowing she doesn't have cancer, or require major surgery and that this is something treatable, the learning begins ! For a girl who loves her food, it is so heartbreaking to see her crying and pawing at her food dish. She did finally eat her breakie after adding some plain yougurt, and placing it in a flat dish, but her snout is red and sore. We will look into capsules for sure, but it being a long holiday weekend, we will have to wait.
I do have another question: before her bloodwork from the internist came back, she was placed on Royal Canin GI Fiber, because she was having such horrible diarrhea. We ordered a large bag ( expensive )of it on-line. We understand she should be on a low fiber diet ? Any suggestions ?

THank you so much !

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Jean
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Posts: 956
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara
My name: Jean

Re: Newly diagnosed Pug

Post by Jean » 30 Dec 2018, 06:31

Royal Canin is horribly expensive, and unless there is another condition that requires a low fat diet, EPI does not

Jean
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We use Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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Bruinwar
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Posts: 9
Country: United States
State: Michigan

Re: Newly diagnosed Pug

Post by Bruinwar » 30 Dec 2018, 06:33

Oops ! Just saw the suggestion re: food.
Thanks !

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Buttermom1
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Re: Newly diagnosed Pug

Post by Buttermom1 » 30 Dec 2018, 08:12

Hello and welcome. The first thing that jumps out at me is the dosage of enzymes. Enzymes should be given according to the amount of food. The general starting amount is one tsp enzymes to one cup of food. Everyone else has given you great information. Butter had elevated liver numbers at time of diagnosis as well, so hopefully your numbers will return to normal shortly. Please take a look at our quick guide, as well as the section on enzymes. Would also suggest feeding on a flat plate for your pup.
Susan

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Shirl D.
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State: New York

Re: Newly diagnosed Pug

Post by Shirl D. » 30 Dec 2018, 09:16

Hello and welcome to the forum! I have a friend with an EPI pug. He's 15 now, and just developed EPI about 3 or 4 years ago, I believe. He's black, too, like Shadow, with a lot of white on his face now. I just wanted to encourage you to make sure to incubate the enzymes in the food for at least 20 minutes. If you are already incubating, I would suggest lengthening the time a little bit. This usually helps with the sores. There have been people who have incubated a good hour to reduce their dog's reaction. I wouldn't go longer than that, just because I wouldn't want to give bacteria a chance to grow while it's incubating. Good luck!

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jilbert57
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Re: Newly diagnosed Pug

Post by jilbert57 » 30 Dec 2018, 10:51

No more advice, just wanted to say you can take the prescription diet back and get a full refund.
My name is Jill and I live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. I have two dogs: Kiya is an aussie/blue heeler and is 13, TJ is a 4 year old Jack Russell. They keep me on my toes.
Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.
6/1999 - 8/2014

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