GSD with EPI not responding to meds

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
sgcavasos
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Posts: 8
Country: United States
State: New Mexico

GSD with EPI not responding to meds

Post by sgcavasos » 11 Mar 2019, 07:06

Hi all!

I'm new to the forum and I was hoping to get some advice from other people that deal with this issue with their pets. My 5 yr old GSD Xiva was confirmed to have EPI in Nov 2017. It seems like it came on pretty fast, within a few months she lost about 23lbs. It took me several trips to three different vets before I finally found one that did the blood test to confirm it. Initially, she responded well to the enzymes the vet put her on. Between those and regular B12 shots, she gained all of the weight back and then some. The vet stopped the B12 shots and said we could cut her dose of the enzymes down a few months after we started the treatment. I've noticed the last few weeks that it seems like she is not really responding to the enzymes anymore. She's starting to show all the signs again that she showed before we started the treatment. Since she's started showing the signs again, I upped her enzymes back to the original dose and I am going to have her bloodwork redone, but I'm just curious if anyone else has dealt with this before.

Thank you,
Sharon

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Miss Maddie Moo
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Re: GSD with EPI not responding to meds

Post by Miss Maddie Moo » 11 Mar 2019, 08:48

Hello EPI can be a roller coaster with Maddie i started off on quite a high dose of enzymes which i was gradually able to reduce then as she aged very couple of years i needed to increase the dose because i would get soft poops if i didn't increase the enzymes then i would get SIBO some need to get this back in control by using an Antibiotic called Tylan its mild but we need to give it for 45 days dosed twice daily with food and the dose is based on the weight of the dog...my gal suffered also with low b12 to the extent that she couldn't hold her levels for more than a week so initially she had shots every week for about 9 months but then we discovered that the pills from : https://www.wonderlabs.com/itemleft.php?itemnum=K9688
and i gave her 1 daily for the rest of her life.
Can you tell us which enzyme you are using ???
Also i would may be try some slippery elm before you go down the antibiotic route.
Also what food do you use we find grain fee is better below 4% fibre and do not restrict the fat.
As for a re-test i only got the B12 rechecked as we need it to be above 600.
Maddie DX April 2011 along with low B12 she was feed with a low fibre food below 3% , fat was not restricted ( she wasnt good on pea based foods ) She initially had a course of B12 shots weekly over a period of 6 months and then we used the B12 pills from Chemeyes in the UK . We used Panzym and slowly had to increase the dose as she aged when she was first DX she was 23kg but she gained weight quickly and got back to 33 kg .
Maddie gained her angel wings in Jan 2018 at the age of 10 to a condition unrelated to EPI.
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Jean
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Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: GSD with EPI not responding to meds

Post by Jean » 11 Mar 2019, 10:12

can I agree with Ann

can you give us the daily regime of what you did in the beginning which helped to up the weight you describe

please keep a diary on what you do

jeanx
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

sgcavasos
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Posts: 8
Country: United States
State: New Mexico

Re: GSD with EPI not responding to meds

Post by sgcavasos » 12 Mar 2019, 08:22

So I've had her on Nutrisource dog food for several years and the vet said it was ok to keep her on that one when all of this came about. She's been on the Pancreved powder the entire time. She started at 2.5tsp twice daily and weekly b12 for about 6 months. She responded really well to everything right away and gained of her weight back fairly quickly. Once she got back to her regular weight, the vet reduced her to 1 tsp of the powder twice daily. She's been on the lowered dose for quite some time and has had zero issues. I tried to the PancrePlus tablets with her and didn't respond to those at all. It's like she wasn't even on anything.

I'm taking her in Thursday morning to have all of her bloodwork done again to check on the EPI and rule out any other possible causes. When her bloodwork was done initially, her numbers weren't very low at all, they were just barely in the range that the vet said she would consider for EPI. I'm curious to how they've changed since the first round of bloodwork.

Thank you both for your feedback! I've been keeping track of her daily so the vet can see what's been happening. It's been so disheartening to see her start going backwards with this.

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jilbert57
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Country: United States
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Re: GSD with EPI not responding to meds

Post by jilbert57 » 12 Mar 2019, 09:00

May I ask how much food you feed each meal? Start point is 1 level teaspoon enzyme per 1 cup kibble. Which Nutrisource is it?
Welcome to the forum
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

sgcavasos
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Posts: 8
Country: United States
State: New Mexico

Re: GSD with EPI not responding to meds

Post by sgcavasos » 12 Mar 2019, 09:16

She's on the salmon Nutrisource and she gets 1 1/4 c twice a day. I'm going to ask the vet about that when I go on Thursday. When I first noticed that she was starting to show the signs again, I upped her enzymes to 1.5 tsp at each feeding thinking that she wasn't getting enough and that's been for about two weeks now and she still isn't improving. I don't know if I need to try another version of the enzymes or what. I'm also starting to wonder if I got a bad batch of medicine the last time. The new bottle should be here today.

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Stacie & Dizzy
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Re: GSD with EPI not responding to meds

Post by Stacie & Dizzy » 12 Mar 2019, 16:43

Welcome to the group. Sometimes SIBO/SID can cause mushy poops or diarrhea. Has your dog ever had that? Most EPI dogs have it when first diagnosed because the undigested food caused bad bacteria in the intestines. I usually give a probiotic for a few days to see if it clears up. If not I try Slippery Elm bark powder. If that doesn’t work I go to the antibiotic Tylan. It is a roller coaster at times. My girl likes to eat bird poop and rabbit poop and that really messes up her poop. You have to just change one thing at a time to see what works for your dog. I do give one tsp enzymes for every cup. I’m not sure if your enzymes are stronger than mine. I have not tried those. I use Enzyme Diane enzymes.
My name is Stacie and my girl's name is Dizzy. German Shepherd, Age 10-diagnosed 12/24/2011 at 55 pounds, current weight is 93 pounds.
Feeding Taste of the Wild 4 cups a day with Enzyme Diane 1tsp per cup. Wonderlabs b12 once daily.
Dizzy has Pannus, given Cyclosporine drops in each eye twice daily. Pepcid once daily. Apoquel for allergies once daily.

sgcavasos
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Posts: 8
Country: United States
State: New Mexico

Re: GSD with EPI not responding to meds

Post by sgcavasos » 12 Mar 2019, 17:51

She hasn't had that. When she was first diagnosed, the only thing our vet wanted to do was the b12 injections and the powder. I was reading up on it and I added it to my list of things to talk to the vet about on Thursday. I'm going to compare the enzymes that I've been using to Enzyme Diane. I can't get over how much cheaper those are compared to what I've been using!

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jilbert57
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Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: GSD with EPI not responding to meds

Post by jilbert57 » 12 Mar 2019, 18:54

Just keep in mind too much enzyme can produce sloppy poops and so can too little enzyme. Might need some tweaking.
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

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Stacie & Dizzy
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Posts: 50
Country: United States
State: Arkansas

Re: GSD with EPI not responding to meds

Post by Stacie & Dizzy » 12 Mar 2019, 20:44

Please keep us updated after you talk to the vet. I’ve used Enzyme Diane for years with no problems. They are very affordable. My vet never even offered enzymes for me to buy. The just gave me a site to order from. I’m thankful I never had to pay those high prices.
My name is Stacie and my girl's name is Dizzy. German Shepherd, Age 10-diagnosed 12/24/2011 at 55 pounds, current weight is 93 pounds.
Feeding Taste of the Wild 4 cups a day with Enzyme Diane 1tsp per cup. Wonderlabs b12 once daily.
Dizzy has Pannus, given Cyclosporine drops in each eye twice daily. Pepcid once daily. Apoquel for allergies once daily.

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