Returning to share an interesting story

[brindledog]

Hi,
Apparently my account was erased after not using it for a couple years.

Anyway, I was on here when my female dog was about 6 months old and chronically losing weight when she should have been gaining, She had all kinds of other issues, such as skin problems, anxiety, her fur was horribly dry and brittle, and she kept getting tapeworms despite repeated treatments. She appeared to have sensitivities to poultry, beef and just about everything but lamb. She also had a couple bizarre neurological episodes that scared me. I had her tested for EPI and it came back negative. She was tested for tons of things, all negative. Then the vet did the old fashioned EPI test and it was abnormal. So we tried the pancreatic enzymes and she miraculously gained 3 pounds in a week and her fur went from straw to silk. She continued on the enzymes until recently. I tried taking her off a couple times and also reducing the amount, and initially she'd be ok, but after a week or so she'd start losing weight and her fur would start to dry out.

Fast forward to recently. I am in the middle of selling my house and lots of other stuff. I now have my girl (GSD/Belgian Malinois mix) AND a crazy Belgian Malinois male. They both were eating a raw diet mixed with the Honest Kitchen base mix. It was very expensive and hard to to when moving. So I decided to try some kibble, which I've been against for years. I also had recently tried reintroducing chicken into her diet, and noticed she was not having the previous constant scratching problem. I did not want grain free kibble because it is still inconclusive what the link is between grain free kibble and heart problems.

So I got a chicken and rice "premium" kibble with NO legumes listed. No peas, beans, etc. She had no problems with it at all, whereas in the past most kibble (all grain free) that I'd tried, often resulted in soft stools. So she was now eating raw chicken without issue, and a chicken based kibble with grain, without any problems. I noticed her fur was getting softer and shinier. We ran out enzymes and something happened with the mail, so my Enzyme Diane order was over a week late. She had no enzymes that week. And no issues. That was over a week ago. I have not given her any enzymes now for a few weeks, and she appears to be doing great. Her skin, which has long had dandruff and red spots, looks good. Her fur is nice. And i've had to reduce her kibble because she was getting a little heavy!

I am amazed. I fed her grain free kibble when she was a puppy and transitioned her to raw with Honest Kitchen when the vet said she was old enough. I always stayed away from grains because my late dog had always had GI issues with kibble, and when I switched her at age 9 to raw, the difference was absolutely amazing. She was an 80+ lbs dog and lived to 16.5.

Obviously every dog is different. I just never even considered that the grain free dog food could be the culprit behind my poor girl's many issues. She can eat raw meat just fine, but that Honest Kitchen also has legumes, and I didn't even realize it!

So if your dog has symptoms that mimic EPI but s/he tests negative for it and everything else, please consider what your are feeding. Prepared grain-free foods for dogs are not necessarily any better or healthier for them, as many are learning.

Thanks for letting me share this story.

Lisa & Grendel

[Jean]

hi Lisa and welcome back

firstly, your account wasnt deleted, we created a new and improved site, which is this one, and the old one then closed down, however, an archive of the old site forum is still accessible should you want to look at it, but it is not live

https://epi4dogs.com/old-epi4dogs-forum-archive/

that is surely an interesting story

and as you correctly say, every animal is different, it will certainly give food for thought

you speak of an old fashioned EPI test, can you tell us was this the fecal xray film test ? and how was it abnormal ?

my cat was diagnosed by this in the early 80's, now considered virtually obsolete, however, in some countries where cTLI test is not available, I imagine it is used

thank you for this

Jean

[Miss Maddie Moo]

Hello
Thank you for sharing your story it sounds like your dog may be didn't have EPI as EPI dogs need enzymes for life and the Ctli test looks like it came back as negative the old test can be unreliable but it could be that at at that moment in time there were some other pancreas issues going on may be even pancreatitis hence the enzymes helped fix this problem we have seen cases were they do help in other malabsorption issues but they shouldn't be used long term.
Food thats a nightmare like you my Gal never did well if the food contained any peas or legumes and we see that alot ...glad you have found what works for your dog.
Thanks for sharing.

[Olesia711]

Thanks for posting your story.

Unfortunately... if the cTLI test came back negative, but then the old fashioned tested indicated possible EPI.... and yet the dog did not do well until placed on enzymes.... if the TLI test was negative, the dog did NOT have EPI. Blood tests don't lie......

However, as mentioned above, something sure was going on with the pancreas, just not EPI, since the enzymes helped. We have seen this happen often.
Also, what will happen is if a dog is given enzymes and they do not have EPI, eventually after long term use, the enzymes themselves will then cause loose stools, etc (just like untreated EPI).... i strongly suspect that this is what happened in your dogs case, the body reached the point where the enzymes were no longer needed, (as this wasn't EPI) and then the enzymes had the opposite reaction.

Regarding grain free food.... there was SOOOoooo much inaccurate bru-ha-ha that many vets and the media jumped on the bandwagon on the internet, sound-bites news casts... Anyway, the devil was in the details, it is mostly breed specific, or an issue already in play, and it is the lentils, peas, legumes, etc......not the fact that the food is grain free but rather stuffed with these other fillers..... and there are many more details ....but.it appears that many people just don't read the full research but rather go with sound-bites on the internet
We at Epi4Dogs try to keep this website as current as possible and has as much as possible of this grain-free debacle and valid research disclosed on this page: https://epi4dogs.com/taurine-grainfree-diets/

The fact that your dog greatly improved on a kibble with chicken and rice and no peas, legumes, etc, makes all the sense in the world, especially since your dog does not have EPI via blood tests, even thou the enzymes helped and even thou the old fashioned test indicated possible EPI, if the blood test indicated no EPI, then there is no EPI. As mentioned above the fecal test (old-fashioned test) is highly inaccurate, but it was the best tool they had years ago....)

Anyway......... i bet you are hugely relieved that finally your gal is doing so much better and feeling wonderful. Kudos to you big time for being a great care-giver AND for being willing to try things, never giving up .... and for thinking outside the box.

Regarding the chicken..... i had a similar experience with my non-EPI dog.... he had a bad reaction to anything with chicken... exact same thing as you described. So i stopped giving chicken. Then about 2 years later, i gave some fresh range free chicken with no antibiotics, no chemicals, etc.... and my dog was fine. Little by little he then started eating all kinds of stuff with chicken.... and there were no problems.... to this day i am not exactly sure what was going on... but i do wonder if it was an over-load of chemicals put in chicken...... and his body reached a limit at that time......

Wouldn't it be nice if some how some way we could someday figure out (without it costing an arm and a leg) what is really going on in our dog's individual gut system??? It sure seems that so many of these health issues that we try so hard to figure out and take the best care possible of our dogs... so much of it appears to be somehow connected to the gut's microbiome..............

Again, kudos to you for a great job caring for your gal!